The Concept of Privilege

[Joel]

We can simply look for places where systemic privilege exists for any race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or religion, and ask ourselves, "is this right?" and "how can we fix it?"

Even you, who have been so careful, write here as if privilege is (or might be) the problem ("how can we fix it?"). The terminology led you astray.

[Starlight]

From here:

I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.
3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.
12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
14. Ican arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.
18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.
25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.
29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.
30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.
32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.
34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.
37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.
38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.
39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.
40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.
43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.
45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.
46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.
47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.
48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.
49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.
50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

Excellent points.

And, as I have pointed out in the past, these sorts of things tend to apply to almost any type of minority group.

[Darth Executor]

If two people sit at a bar, and order the same beer (which I am doing as I type), both receive the same beer in the same glass for the same amount, but one has almost no head and one is 25% head. They are not getting the same amount of beer. The one with more beer has the "privilege" or "benefit" off having more beer. The one with less beer has the "burden" or "disadvantage" of having less beer. Which language you use is all about what you're focusing on. The reality is, there is a difference and one person is advantaged and the other disadvantaged.

I have two black children and that has been true for almost two decades. We have had numerous outings with our extended families and friends over those years. Many, many times the adults will be in the house and one or more of the children will go outside to play. In 19+ years, nobody has ever called the police to report "strange children" on any of the white children in my family. The cops have been called 8 times when one or both of my children were out playing alone. When I talk to the other parents in our adoption group who have adopted black children, they tell us "this is normal." They too have experienced it many times over the expanse of their children's lives, and the situation is always the same: it doesn't happen when one or more white children are out, or when white children are out WITH our black children. It ONLY happens when the black children are out alone, and it happens about 50% of the time.

A white family will never notice that they have a "privilege" or "advantage," because all they do, time after time, is let their children go out and play. That the cops might be called usually doesn't even cross their minds. A family with black children is VERY aware of the fact that, if they let their children go play out back in a strange place (e.g., a rented house being used for vacation, a family they are visiting), there is a 50/50 chance the cops will come knocking.

So are the black children disadvantaged/discriminated against, or are the white families experiencing a privilege they never even think about?

Is the glass half empty or half full?

lol carpedm is a rich white liberal living in a 90% white neighborhood like all rich white liberals who wonders why people might suspect black (but not white) children of possibly being criminal outsiders. carpedm is a walking stereotype of the kind of white liberal that is mercilessly mocked just about everywhere on the Internet where leftists don't ban all opposing thoughts. I could write entire paragraphs about the hilarity of this account.

[Darth Executor]

I want to be clear here. No race is always the beneficiary of privilege. No gender is always the beneficiary of privilege. No ethnicity, sexual orientation, or religion is always the beneficiary of privilege. But every race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, and religion experiences privileges and disadvantages that are systemic, and SOLELY associated with that aspect of their identity. These are the things I believe we should identify and weed out. I do believe that, on average, white people experience more systemic privilege than black people, males more systemic privilege than females, causasians more privileges than other ethnicities, heterosexuals more privileges than homosexuals and bisexuals, and Christians (in the U.S.) more privileges than other religions. That does not mean any one person feels that. A white, male, heteterosexual, Christian in Appalachia may have little/no privilege, while a black, female, gay, Buddhist in San Franscisco may experience a great deal of privilege.

We cannot deal with each and every individual. We can simply look for places where systemic privilege exists for any race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or religion, and ask ourselves, "is this right?" and "how can we fix it?"

Let's rewind a bit and remember carpedm thinks that your parents taking care of you and performing their duty to make sure you grow up to be a normal, healthy, functioning adult is a privilege that needs fixing.

[carpedm9587]

lol carpedm is a rich white liberal living in a 90% white neighborhood like all rich white liberals who wonders why people might suspect black (but not white) children of possibly being criminal outsiders. carpedm is a walking stereotype of the kind of white liberal that is mercilessly mocked just about everywhere on the Internet where leftists don't ban all opposing thoughts. I could write entire paragraphs about the hilarity of this account.

Actually, my neighborhood is 100% white (except our boys), but the experiences I described were not in our neighborhood (where the boys are known and widely accepted), but were scattered in cities across the country (Baltimore, Phoenix, New Orleans, Atlanta, Seattle, Hampton Roads, NYC, and San Diego, being some of them).

[carpedm9587]

Let's rewind a bit and remember carpedm thinks that your parents taking care of you and performing their duty to make sure you grow up to be a normal, healthy, functioning adult is a privilege that needs fixing.

Since I never said ANY of that, I have no other response (but this one).

[carpedm9587]

But it's not just symmetric point of views, because one (oppression) is a problem and the other (not-oppression) is not, right? Unless you think oppressing everyone equally is as good of a goal as zero oppression. The ideal is that all the parents can just let their kids play.

Yes it is. But when I can enjoy that reality and others cannot, I am enjoying a privilege all do not have access to. If we all had access to it, it would cease to be a privilege, and would simply be "business as usual."

The way some people talk makes me suspect that they do think both are equally good (or even that pulling down is even better than bringing up). But I don't think you think that.

You are correct, I do not. I do not think the privileges I enjoy should be torn down - I think they should be avaiable to everyone. If that were to happen, they would cease to be a privilege and would simply be "business as usual."

[carpedm9587]

Even you, who have been so careful, write here as if privilege is (or might be) the problem ("how can we fix it?"). The terminology led you astray.

Perhaps my syntax was imprecise. My point is, how can we fix it so all have access to the same privileges; not "how can we tear down the privileges."

[carpedm9587]

Really? In this age of mixed race marriages? Especially ones that have children from previous marriages? And especially when you add grandparents to the mix.

Yes - even in this age. We have (and continue to) experience it regularly. OUr children are older, so they are far more frequently independent than when they were younger. Now they come back and tell us how different things are without our "shielding." Although we occasionally had to deal with white/black confusion when we were all together, now they find themselves out without us along, and experiencing the full sense of what it means to be black in the U.S. It has been eye-opening for all of us.

[Mountain Man]

what you do and do not beleive is not my concern. I know what has happened to me and those I interact with. You are free to dismiss it if you wish.

I can very well say the same thing to you.

[Darth Executor]

Since I never said ANY of that, I have no other response (but this one).

Isn't it what you said though? You list things someone's parents, relatives, community, etc. did for them as kids as a privilege and claim the fact that they have this and others don't means privilege needs to be transferred from the former to the latter. In fact this is the very reason you give for why you are transferring your own privilege (which you were actually supposed to pass down to biological descendants) to other people's kids.

[Mountain Man]

They do to you, MM. As far as I can tell, you are the only one making this objection. That you feel a need to focus your angst on my choice of language, rather than the core message (which it seems you actually understand), says a good deal about you. I leave you to your assumptions.

Speaking of assumptions and missing the "core message"...

[carpedm9587]

Isn't it what you said though?

No

You list things someone's parents, relatives, community, etc. did for them as kids as a privilege and claim the fact that they have this and others don't means privilege needs to be transferred from the former to the latter. In fact this is the very reason you give for why you are transferring your own privilege (which you were actually supposed to pass down to biological descendants) to other people's kids.

You have apparently so FAR missed the mark, I have no idea where to even begin...

[Joel]

Then there are some kinds of privilege that are more ingrained in our culture/system/society. When we live in a culture/family that teaches "X," we assimilate "X" often without even being conscious of it. That then colors how we behave going forward, sometimes even unconsciously. These are the things we know as "implicit bias." They don't make us bad people. They make us human - stewed in the behaviors of our culture. The behaviors and attitudes transcend generations, and are notoriously difficult to work out of the culture.

Could this also include things that do not create implicit bias/prejudice but still could create disparity in outcomes?

For example, suppose the ant and the grasshopper (from the Aesop fable) are part of two different sub-cultures, where ant community teaches hard work, saving, etc., and the grasshopper subculture doesn't teach and/or value those things as much. These teachings may be things assimilated without being conscious of it. "That then colors how [the ant and the grasshopper] behave going forward, sometimes even unconsciously." Then, even if there is no prejudice between ants and grasshoppers (conscious or otherwise) there would still tend to be a disparity in outcomes.

Again in this case, the ant advantage (better cultural teachings) is not the thing to be fixed. Nor would this be case of the grasshoppers being oppressed by ants. To help grasshoppers in that case would require trying to get them to change their culture, I guess?

[Darth Executor]

No



You have apparently so FAR missed the mark, I have no idea where to even begin...

No, I don't think I did. Not sure I have the patience to go trolling through your post history again though. So if you have no objection to some people being raised properly and you don't think having a "privileged" upbringing imposes any obligations on them I'm not sure what is left of your argument. What exactly is there to fix?