The Concept of Privilege

[guacamole]

I have already read the article. I am not arguing that the test predicts associations between bias and action (it doesn't) or that it is error free (it actually suffers from a repeatability issue, much like the Myers Briggs personality profile). It can be affected by mood, context, and several other factors. These are things I did not realize until someone gave me the links to the two articles, one of which you just provided again.

I've been lurking in the thread and took the implicit bias toward homosexual/heterosexual relationships test when I saw you posted the reference to it. I agree with you, first of all, that it's an interesting "consciousness raiser" about some of the issues--though perhaps not as much as asking a person to wheel himself across campus in a wheel chair! The exercise was interesting.

This is not at all a critique, but an observation about the test. I feel like, as a video gamer, I could get any score that I wanted with the test. That's not to say that the theory about the connections between the value words and the relationship words is invalid, only that their mechanism of testing - quickly pressing a selection of buttons connected to some value--was second nature to me, despite not having ever taken such a test before.

It was an interesting exercise, at any rate.

Personally, I do not think this reality robs it of all value as a way of attempting to assess ourselves. I took the test, came out with a "mild bias," and began looking for ways in which that might be true. I found them fairly easily. Lacking a formal, verified mechanism for measuring implicit bias, right now it is the best we have. If nothing else, it gets us asking the questions.

My perspective, of course. Take it for what it's worth.

I think self-critique is difficult for most people, whatever they believe. Most people don't believe they are bad, and most go about their daily lives with out so much as an inkling that they could pursue more of a "growth mindset" (I think that was an in-vogue term at some point) about anything of value to them, let alone important moral questions.

fwiw,
guacamole

[Adrift]

You know, for someone who describes himself as "moderate" or "centrist," you seem to have a significant bee in your bonnet about "liberals," which you do not seem to have about conservatives. Maybe your "implicit bias" is not about races, but is about political dispositions? Just a thought. I know I struggle with this one. I tend to have a negative view of "liberals" with respect to fiscal issues, and a negative view of conservatives with respect to social issues. I continually have to remind myself "they're not the enemy."

This is the second time you've mentioned something about Sparko considering himself a centrist. Maybe I missed a post of his on this, but I always assumed he thought of himself as a conservative, and that he leans right (though perhaps closer to the center than some of the other right-wing posters of the forum).

[guacamole]

Maybe I missed a post of his on this...

You missed the great political quiz orgy of '17.

[Sparko]

I'm not. That's what I do. I use tools like Project Implicit to help me ferret out bias. I engage in discussions with friends and family about implicit bias. If/when I find it, I look for things in my experience where it manifests (e.g., my differing internal reaction to people behnd the convience store). Then I have to practice changing that reaction (e.g., reminding myself, when I have it that I'm responding out of that bias place).

in other words you decide to treat them like you would want to be treated if you were in their shoes. Huh. imagine that. What if everyone did that?

You know, for someone who describes himself as "moderate" or "centrist," you seem to have a significant bee in your bonnet about "liberals," which you do not seem to have about conservatives. Maybe your "implicit bias" is not about races, but is about political dispositions? Just a thought. I know I struggle with this one. I tend to have a negative view of "liberals" with respect to fiscal issues, and a negative view of conservatives with respect to social issues. I continually have to remind myself "they're not the enemy."

On issues like this, I am a definite conservative.

[Sparko]

This is the second time you've mentioned something about Sparko considering himself a centrist. Maybe I missed a post of his on this, but I always assumed he thought of himself as a conservative, and that he leans right (though perhaps closer to the center than some of the other right-wing posters of the forum).

I took the political compass test and it showed me as pretty much a centrist. Who am I to argue?

I have different views on different subjects.

[Adrift]

You missed the great political quiz orgy of '17.

No, I think I started that one, but I thought it was pretty much agreed that they weren't very precise.

[Adrift]

I took the political compass test and it showed me as pretty much a centrist. Who am I to argue?

I have different views on different subjects.

Ah, ok. Well there you have it.

[carpedm9587]

This is the second time you've mentioned something about Sparko considering himself a centrist. Maybe I missed a post of his on this, but I always assumed he thought of himself as a conservative, and that he leans right (though perhaps closer to the center than some of the other right-wing posters of the forum).

It is possible I dreamed this. I was pretty sure he told me, in another post, that he was actually a centrist. If I remember that incorrectly, then you have my apology, Sparko.

[carpedm9587]

in other words you decide to treat them like you would want to be treated if you were in their shoes. Huh. imagine that. What if everyone did that?

On issues like this, I am a definite conservative.

I think the part you are missing, Sparko, is that we cannot do that for things/positions we are not conscious of having. That is what "implicit bias" is all about.

[rogue06]

No, I think I started that one, but I thought it was pretty much agreed that they weren't very precise.

The World's Shortest Political Quiz had me has a strong libertarian (true) but with a slight left of center bend (I don't agree there).

[Sparko]

I think the part you are missing, Sparko, is that we cannot do that for things/positions we are not conscious of having. That is what "implicit bias" is all about.

If you treat everyone like you would want to be treated in their situation then you don't need to be aware of any bias because you would not be treating them with any bias other than the bias of seeing them as a human being like yourself. Right?

[Sparko]

Besides I thought you said that privilege isn't about how you treat others but how you are treated by others? As a white man I am treated "better" than a black woman for instance - BY SOCIETY, NOT ME. Correct? Yet now you are talking about implicit bias and how I treat others. It is no longer about "my privilege" is it?

And if I treat everyone like I want to be treated as a "white man" then I am giving them the "white privilege" that I have, correct?

[carpedm9587]

If you treat everyone like you would want to be treated in their situation then you don't need to be aware of any bias because you would not be treating them with any bias other than the bias of seeing them as a human being like yourself. Right?

I do not believe it is that simple. The human brain has both a conscious and a subconscious component. We are not always aware of what we do subconsciously, and implicit bias is a function of the subconscious, AFAIK. So I may want to treat people as I want to be treated, blind to the fact that there are ways in which I am NOT doing that - internally or externally. This is why I find these discussions, and things like Project Implicit, valuable.

I used the sidewalk example to make that point. At no time would I have even been aware that there was an aspect of how we contructed our buildings/roads that advantaged one group while disadvantaging another. I was "just walking," treating everyone the same. I only became aware of it when someone gave me a wheelchair and challenged me to try. That experience made me an advocate for the ADA and other practices we have introduced to try to bring more balance to our constructed physical spaces. There are many other such examples.

[carpedm9587]

Besides I thought you said that privilege isn't about how you treat others but how you are treated by others? As a white man I am treated "better" than a black woman for instance - BY SOCIETY, NOT ME. Correct? Yet now you are talking about implicit bias and how I treat others. It is no longer about "my privilege" is it?

I do not believe it is an either/or; I believe it is a both/and. I am avoiding the word "privilege" because it seems to bother so many people. Implicit bias can be about how I unconsciously treat others, or support unfair practices/policies that advantage me while simultaneously disadvantaging another. Do you hire people? If so, have you ever tried pre-screening a stack of resumes blinded, waited 24 hours, and then repeated the pre-screening to see if the results were the same or different? These are things we can do to "self-check" our beliefs about ourselves.

And if I treat everyone like I want to be treated as a "white man" then I am giving them the "white privilege" that I have, correct?

I can make no such absolute statement. I would be somewhat disturbed by the idea of needing to treat everyone as a "white man." Second, advantages/disadvantages that are rooted in social/cultural structures are not going to be addressed by how you personnaly change what you do. Someone has to advocate for them at the social/cultural/legal level, and there needs to be enough "someones" to effect a real change.

Case in point, you can be sensitive to the needs of those who are wheelchair bound and make your home 100% accessible. Until/unless there is a broader social movement, that's only going to help people who visit your house.

[Sparko]

I do not believe it is that simple. The human brain has both a conscious and a subconscious component. We are not always aware of what we do subconsciously, and implicit bias is a function of the subconscious, AFAIK. So I may want to treat people as I want to be treated, blind to the fact that there are ways in which I am NOT doing that - internally or externally. This is why I find these discussions, and things like Project Implicit, valuable.

I used the sidewalk example to make that point. At no time would I have even been aware that there was an aspect of how we contructed our buildings/roads that advantaged one group while disadvantaging another. I was "just walking," treating everyone the same. I only became aware of it when someone gave me a wheelchair and challenged me to try. That experience made me an advocate for the ADA and other practices we have introduced to try to bring more balance to our constructed physical spaces. There are many other such examples.

so if we are so blind as to not be able to be conscious of this "bias" then there is nothing you can do to stop it. And if there is a way to recognize that bias then you can indeed treat others like you want to be treated and not imbue that bias on them. I don't see the problem with the golden rule being the solution. Love your neighbor. That's it.