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The Concept of Privilege

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  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I do not believe it is an either/or; I believe it is a both/and. I am avoiding the word "privilege" because it seems to bother so many people. Implicit bias can be about how I unconsciously treat others, or support unfair practices/policies that advantage me while simultaneously disadvantaging another. Do you hire people? If so, have you ever tried pre-screening a stack of resumes blinded, waited 24 hours, and then repeated the pre-screening to see if the results were the same or different? These are things we can do to "self-check" our beliefs about ourselves.



    I can make no such absolute statement. I would be somewhat disturbed by the idea of needing to treat everyone as a "white man." Second, advantages/disadvantages that are rooted in social/cultural structures are not going to be addressed by how you personnaly change what you do. Someone has to advocate for them at the social/cultural/legal level, and there needs to be enough "someones" to effect a real change.

    Case in point, you can be sensitive to the needs of those who are wheelchair bound and make your home 100% accessible. Until/unless there is a broader social movement, that's only going to help people who visit your house.
    well if white men get all these privileges then would it not be fair to treat everyone as if they were a white male? Then everyone would get the same privileges. That is what you are after, right?

    and the way to get a broader movement is to teach everyone the golden rule. Which we do in church. Nobody is perfect but we can try and work our way there.
    Last edited by Sparko; 02-05-2018, 02:32 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      well if white men get all these privileges then would it not be fair to treat everyone as if they were a white male? Then everyone would get the same privileges. That is what you are after, right?

      and the way to get a broader movement is to teach everyone the golden rule. Which we do in church. Nobody is perfect but we can try and work our way there.
      No. That ignores other forms of unjust/systemic advantage/disadvantage that are not associated with being white or male.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        so if we are so blind as to not be able to be conscious of this "bias" then there is nothing you can do to stop it. And if there is a way to recognize that bias then you can indeed treat others like you want to be treated and not imbue that bias on them. I don't see the problem with the golden rule being the solution. Love your neighbor. That's it.
        As you wish, Sparko. At this point, I'm repeating myself. If you find the golden rule is adequate, so be it. I choose to do a bit more self/social evaluation.

        I'll leave the last word to you, unless you ask me a question.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          No. That ignores other forms of unjust/systemic advantage/disadvantage that are not associated with being white or male.
          This is interesting...could you give an example of one of these advantages?
          I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            No. That ignores other forms of unjust/systemic advantage/disadvantage that are not associated with being white or male.
            You sure make this stuff complicated. So I guess I will just have to keep treating people nice and the way I would like them to treat me. If that isn't perfect, so what? I am not perfect (yet). So far you have not given a better solution than to do your best to obey the Golden Rule and love your neighbor.

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            • Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
              This is interesting...could you give an example of one of these advantages?
              • I've actually given several. In a divorce proceeding with children involved, there is an element of "female advantage" that occurs in custody decisions. The woman is almost always automatically preferred by the courts as the primary parent, and the man has to make the case that they are just as capable and entitled to be awarded custody or joint custody. Some of this is softening a bit, but not everywhere and not a lot.
              • I gave the example of studies that show that talent scouts, in recruiting players, have been shown to have a bias towards black athletes, even when the skills can be shown to be demonstrably equal.
              • Affirmative action was a systemic/legal structure that conferred a level of advantage on minorities in an attempt to level the playing field. In effect, what it did was create a form of reverse discrimination.


              In general, if you looked at all of the systemic/cultural advantages, white tends to see more than black, male more than female, etc. But it is by no means universal: there are examples of advantages that accrue to other genders/races/ethnicities, etc. And because advantages tend to more frequently benefit white males does not mean it equally benefits ALL white males. A white man in a manufacturing job who has never completed a resume is not going to benefit from the implicit bias that has been shown to apply to resume pre-screening.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                • I've actually given several. In a divorce proceeding with children involved, there is an element of "female advantage" that occurs in custody decisions. The woman is almost always automatically preferred by the courts as the primary parent, and the man has to make the case that they are just as capable and entitled to be awarded custody or joint custody. Some of this is softening a bit, but not everywhere and not a lot.
                • I gave the example of studies that show that talent scouts, in recruiting players, have been shown to have a bias towards black athletes, even when the skills can be shown to be demonstrably equal.
                • Affirmative action was a systemic/legal structure that conferred a level of advantage on minorities in an attempt to level the playing field. In effect, what it did was create a form of reverse discrimination.


                In general, if you looked at all of the systemic/cultural advantages, white tends to see more than black, male more than female, etc. But it is by no means universal: there are examples of advantages that accrue to other genders/races/ethnicities, etc. And because advantages tend to more frequently benefit white males does not mean it equally benefits ALL white males. A white man in a manufacturing job who has never completed a resume is not going to benefit from the implicit bias that has been shown to apply to resume pre-screening.
                Ok, thanks. I was just curious what you meant.
                I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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                • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                  You don't know what the genetic fallacy is (which is probably why you yourself use it so often). The genetic fallacy is when you reject (or accept) a claim based on its origin rather than the argument being made. I haven't rejected the claim. Again, to the contrary, I indicated that he may be right.

                  "You don't know what the genetic fallacy is"
                  which is probably why you are using it here. You indicated that prof. Zuckerman “may be right” preceded by negative references to him as: “the same anti-Christian, atheist advocate Phil Zuckerman, author of Atheism and secularity, Society without God, Faith no more, and contributor to The Cambridge Companion to Atheism”? If you consider him to be right why suggest that he is biased?

                  Ok, so no, he doesn't. Got it. That's what I thought.
                  You did NOT support your implication that “figuring in the centuries of Christian influence on those Scandinavian nations” explains secular Norway topping the list of nations in the UN Human Development Index. This would be difficult to do given that the highly Christian USA is one of the most violent and inequitable nations in the developed world and features well down the IHDI as a consequence.
                  Last edited by Tassman; 02-05-2018, 11:13 PM.
                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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