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House Intel votes to release FISA memo...

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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Notice that nobody has disputed any of the revelations in the memo. The liberal spin is, "It's true, but it doesn't matter."
    The FBI under Trump appointee Wray says that "we have grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the memo's accuracy." In short, it is a misleading and dishonest document. It's primary purpose seemingly being to discredit the primary intelligence agencies in order save Trump from the closing in Russia investigation.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      That's how the liberal media is trying to spin it at any rate, and you're swallowing it hook, line, and sucker (autocorrect turned "sinker" into "sucker", but it seems appropriate, so I'm leaving it. ).

      Look at your Snopes quote again. What's their source? Unnamed "officials", those infamous anonymous sources who always seem to tell the liberal media exactly what they want to hear. Anytime an article refuses to name names, you need to be suspicious. You gotta open your eyes and see this for yourself, carpe, because I won't always be around to point this stuff out to you.
      The WSJ, as with most newspapers, have a long history of protecting sources for isues where someone is speaking on condition of anonimity, and have a practice of validating those sources in numerous ways. That has been a long, and accepted, model of reporting. It has been used, historically, to question those in power who are not fullfiling their commitment to the American people. Only since the era of Trump's "fake news" mantra has this practice been widely questioned and repudiated. From my perspective, MM, it is not I who is being taken in by someone looking to get his base to accept things "hook, line, and sinker." You are succumbing to Trump's attempt to undermine those in the best position to shine a light on our leaders and our institutions. Without the media, the only "source" we will have for information will be the leaders themselves and their media mouthpieces - a VERY dangerous state of affairs.

      Personally, I have no plans to let Trump's mantra sway me from confidence in the 4th estate. I will let the practices of these media outlets inform me. The WSJ is a news outlet with a pretty sterling reputation. I see no reason to begin questioning it now. And since they are not a liberal news outlet, they cannot be accused of a liberal "spin."

      I'll leave you to your conclusions.
      Last edited by carpedm9587; 02-12-2018, 07:10 AM.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        I've been using, as an example, their opinion of the Patriot Post, so ...not an assumption.
        The assumption under discussion was mine.

        They were initially named The Federalist. They changed their name to avoid confusion with The Federalist Society. Further, since I've been reading (well over a decade now), it has never been (or billed itself as) an independent news source. It has evolved somewhat, now putting out a news digest 5 days a week instead of MWF, but anything outside of the digest is going to be commentary/opinion pieces - including the one you brought up. I don't need something to be labeled an op-ed to successfully identify it as such. I'd think you'd be bright enough to do so as well, but for some slight amount of bias.
        I don't need it to be labeled as junk news, either, or to read that someone else has coded its source as a "known propaganda website."

        Well, yes, if you're determined to pick nits, State has no troops to send. State, however, theoretically has a direct line to CinC, who does. This is the 21st century, not the 19th.

        Your opinion is duly noted. I'm not the one confusing a commentary piece with straight up news.
        There is no confusion about its content. The discussion was about how it was presented, and how it interacted with journalistic standards.

        Before the sequence of financial faceplants that sent it back to the also-ran league, the Chicago Tribune provided quintessentially hard news for a hard news town. (Disclosure: some of my stories for a local college paper were picked up by the Tribune.) The editorial position was reliably conservative, making their standards good to recall. Most of the reporters i knew back then did their apprenticeships at Chicago's own City News Bureau.
        If your mother says she loves you, check it out.

        Most of the op/ed staff came up through the ranks of reporters, too, providing a reliable school for standards across the field. Opinion pieces, contra whatever it is that happens with Hannity on FNC, are subject to editorial review as well. Basic fact checking applies to editorial content. Echoing Moynihan, the right to one's own opinion does not imply a right to one's own facts.

        I don't know what the Patriot Post, née the Federalist, was like ten years ago, but what I'm seeing now is regular pandering to conspiracy theories, from deep states to hit squads, and a total divorce from the journalistic standards that come with in-house reporting.
        State, however, theoretically has a direct line to CinC.

        This hearkens back to another conspiracy theory, that Hillary issued a "stand down" order, which is counterfactual for much the same reasons. The SoS has no such authority. The military chain of command is not a nit, nor is the presence, on site, of a CIA contingent.

        It would be nice to know, yes. I don't think it's remotely possible to find out, however; it would require extensive, unbiased polling of a group likely to give honest answers.
        It's possible to put a box around the answer, and to tighten that box, without extensive, unbiased polling.

        Agreed, to a point. We are an open society. It takes the efforts of a China or Iran to have a decent shot at squashing outside influence, and that takes a big bite out of the first amendment.
        I appreciate the difficulty in distinguishing foreign propaganda from our home grown varieties, particularly as one feeds off the other, as well as the tension between an open society and the need to combat foreign counterintelligence.

        But like any other effort to stop foreign invasions, to the extent the laws have sufficient oversight to protect civil liberties, what the laws allow should be done.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          The WSJ, as with most newspapers, have a long history of protecting sources for isues where someone is speaking on condition of anonimity, and have a practice of validating those sources in numerous ways. That has been a long, and accepted, model of reporting.
          It has long been accepted, but so what? It should be obvious to anybody who's been paying attention for the last couple of years that phrases like "sources say" is a tip off that what you're reading is probably fake news, and that you should, at the very least, be extremely skeptical until it is confirmed through more credible methods, such as an official document, or someone willing to put their name on record.

          And I'll let you in on a little secret: this isn't something new. The mainstream media has always operated this way. It's just that before the advent of "new media" and other alternative sources of information, there was nobody around to call them out for their deceptions, so the public was conditioned to accept it as "that's just how it's done", but now we know better. Well, at least some of us know better. I realize that I am talking to the guy who depends on Media Bias Fact Check to tell him what to think, so perhaps I'm wasting my breath explaining this to you.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
            The FBI under Trump appointee Wray says that "we have grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the memo's accuracy." In short, it is a misleading and dishonest document. It's primary purpose seemingly being to discredit the primary intelligence agencies in order save Trump from the closing in Russia investigation.
            Seeing how Wray is one of the ones who was busted by the memo, I wouldn't expect him to say anything different. It's just the "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" routine. The fun part is that nobody has ever pointed out exactly what those "material omissions of fact" are.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              It has long been accepted, but so what? It should be obvious to anybody who's been paying attention for the last couple of years that phrases like "sources say" is a tip off that what you're reading is probably fake news, and that you should, at the very least, be extremely skeptical until it is confirmed through more credible methods, such as an official document, or someone willing to put their name on record.

              And I'll let you in on a little secret: this isn't something new. The mainstream media has always operated this way. It's just that before the advent of "new media" and other alternative sources of information, there was nobody around to call them out for their deceptions, so the public was conditioned to accept it as "that's just how it's done", but now we know better. Well, at least some of us know better. I realize that I am talking to the guy who depends on Media Bias Fact Check to tell him what to think, so perhaps I'm wasting my breath explaining this to you.
              I'll leave you to that impression, MM. Apparently you have bought into Trump's mantra. I disagree, and we have decades of major stories calling into question major players that the 4th Estate has called into question and sometimes brought down. I do not subscribe to your conspiracy theory, or Trump's rhetoric.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                I do not subscribe to your conspiracy theory...
                Only a low-information liberal would call common sense a "conspiracy theory".

                Come on, carpe, you gotta be smarter than this.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Only a low-information liberal would call common sense a "conspiracy theory".

                  Come on, carpe, you gotta be smarter than this.
                  I am. That's my point
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • Source: Devin Nunes

                    "...the facts are not bearing out to what the Democrats wanted it to be because we have found collusion. We have found collusion between the Democrats, specifically the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee, and the Russians.

                    "However, it does not seem to be — nobody is interested in that collusion. We have also found felony leaks. Nobody seems to be interested in getting to the bottom of the felony leaks. So, it is part of what the House Intelligence Committee, led by the Republicans are trying to get to the bottom of, despite — are up against a lot of odds. We are not getting help from the Democrats in the House and also not getting any help from the mainstream media."

                    http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/...ocrats-wanted/

                    © Copyright Original Source


                    I read an editorial elsewhere noting just how studiously disinterested the media is in this whole affair. It has been a virtual blackout. The Nunes memo named names, but have you seen the mainstream attempt to talk to any of them? No, not even in a "Let's hear your side of the story to set the record straight" sort of way. It's like the mainstream media doesn't want to ask the questions because they're afraid of what the answers will be.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Source: Devin Nunes

                      "...the facts are not bearing out to what the Democrats wanted it to be because we have found collusion. We have found collusion between the Democrats, specifically the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee, and the Russians.

                      "However, it does not seem to be — nobody is interested in that collusion. We have also found felony leaks. Nobody seems to be interested in getting to the bottom of the felony leaks. So, it is part of what the House Intelligence Committee, led by the Republicans are trying to get to the bottom of, despite — are up against a lot of odds. We are not getting help from the Democrats in the House and also not getting any help from the mainstream media."

                      http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/...ocrats-wanted/

                      © Copyright Original Source


                      I read an editorial elsewhere noting just how studiously disinterested the media is in this whole affair. It has been a virtual blackout. The Nunes memo named names, but have you seen the mainstream attempt to talk to any of them? No, not even in a "Let's hear your side of the story to set the record straight" sort of way. It's like the mainstream media doesn't want to ask the questions because they're afraid of what the answers will be.
                      I'm sure there is a broad-based conspiracy to do exactly that, MM....
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        I'm sure there is a broad-based conspiracy to do exactly that, MM....
                        This is a huge story, way bigger than Watergate. If there isn't a coordinated and concerted effort on the part of liberals to keep it out of the headlines then what's your theory for why the mainstream media is studiously disinterested in what could very well be the biggest scandal of the century?
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          This is a huge story, way bigger than Watergate. If there isn't a coordinated and concerted effort on the part of liberals to keep it out of the headlines then what's your theory for why the mainstream media is studiously disinterested in what could very well be the biggest scandal of the century?
                          Gee, I don't know...hmmm...maybe that there's really no scandal and this is just more fear mongering from the right trying to distract from the significant problems facing the Trump administration...and an attempt to try to mute the likely blue wave coming in November?
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            This is a huge story, way bigger than Watergate. If there isn't a coordinated and concerted effort on the part of liberals to keep it out of the headlines then what's your theory for why the mainstream media is studiously disinterested in what could very well be the biggest scandal of the century?
                            When a conservative is involved then no evidence is even needed to keep it in the headlines (witness the Trump collusion story itself[1]) with comments like "it's the seriousness of the charge that matters" used to justify it.











                            1. Although Trump is more a populist than conservative.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              When a conservative is involved then no evidence is even needed to keep it in the headlines (witness the Trump collusion story itself[1]) with comments like "it's the seriousness of the charge that matters" used to justify it.











                              1. Although Trump is more a populist than conservative.
                              Oh whah, us poor persecuted conservative christians. Grow up. The MSM isn't making the news, they are reporting it, that it seems to be going against you may be because you are dupes represented by a bunch of con men, nut cases, and charlatans.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                Oh whah, us poor persecuted conservative christians. Grow up. The MSM isn't making the news, they are reporting it, that it seems to be going against you may be because you are dupes represented by a bunch of con men, nut cases, and charlatans.
                                I've missed you!
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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