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Thread: Moody's Assessment of the Tax Overhaul

  1. #21
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I asked if you were speaking from experience.

    So basically you are the good boss but all other company's are evil and just want to keep all the money for themselves and not give out raises unless forced to?
    What on earth? What IS it with you people? At no point did I say that. There are socially-minded companies out there. They tend to be smaller and privately held, but they exist even in the public sphere. They are, as best I can tell, the exception and not the rule. Most companies are driven by profit. Indeed, our legal system even drives them in that direction, because publicly traded companies can be sued if they do not prioritize their fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders. Those shareholders, statistically, are in the top 10% of the wage earners in the country, who directly or indirectly own over 95% of the publicly traded shares. Statistically, by the time you get to the 28th percentile, people earning below that have level have essentiall zero ownership (direct or indirect) in the market.

    This is one of the reasons I don't find Trump's boasting about the market all that compelling. It's doing a lot of those of us "at the top," but not for the vast majority of Americans.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  2. #22
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I could. I actually DO that with my social security tax. For the rest, I think I'll use other avenues.
    You do realize that treating yourself to a steak and lobster dinner with a nice bottle of wine and then giving a bit more than 15% for a tip doesn't really count, right?

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  3. #23
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    "A year after arriving in Washington promising to hand power back to the people, the president has instead given the city’s insiders precisely what they wanted."
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  4. Amen Starlight amen'd this post.
  5. #24
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    You do realize that treating yourself to a steak and lobster dinner with a nice bottle of wine and then giving a bit more than 15% for a tip doesn't really count, right?


    Yes - I realize.

    I was thinking in terms of this, this and/or this.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    "A year after arriving in Washington promising to hand power back to the people, the president has instead given the city’s insiders precisely what they wanted."
    Interesting article. Folks can find it here.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  7. #26
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    No. I will take my own steps to attempt to rebalance the scales a bit.
    Well that is exactly what you would be doing by sending the money to me.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  8. #27
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I don't see how that is possible, since most of the tax plan does not take effect until the 2018 tax year. There are a small number of items that DO impact 2017 taxes, but they will likely reduce the return if they affect you, not increase it.

    https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips...axes/L9kree6l2

    Any change you are seeing in your taxes is likely not due to the bill passed in December 2017.

    Edited to add: I think I may have misunderstood you. Your withholding has been adjusted for your paycheck this year, correct? So you saw a $25 change? Mine was substantially larger - possibly because my income is still fairly high. Statistically, I am in the top 1% (depending on who's numbers you believe), and there is no question this tax cut is going to significantly benefit me. It is why I was not in favor of it. I, and others like me, are not the ones that need the extra money.
    You're completely free to send as much 'extra' money to the IRS as you'd like, as JimL learned a few years ago. But people who are 'not in favor' of tax cuts don't generally resist them with any effort whatsoever. They just keep the money and grumble.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  9. #28
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Well that is exactly what you would be doing by sending the money to me.
    Nice try...
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  10. #29
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    You're completely free to send as much 'extra' money to the IRS as you'd like, as JimL learned a few years ago. But people who are 'not in favor' of tax cuts don't generally resist them with any effort whatsoever. They just keep the money and grumble.
    No. I won't keep the money. I do disagree with the structure of the tax cuts, their impact on the deficit (I don't believe this "the economy will pay for it"), and their disproportionately low impact on the low and middle income. But with the current administration in power, I will take the cuts and direct them to those who have been least helped by this tax cut, perhaps using some for the work we are doing in Haiti.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  11. #30
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    What on earth? What IS it with you people? At no point did I say that.
    That is exactly what you implied when you said:

    As expected, raising salaries and adding jobs is not something a business seeks to do. Managers will tell you it is always the course of last resorts and is done only when a business has no additional room to squeeze efficiency enhancements, or is expecting increased demand beyond what they can meet with efficiency enhancements. When a business gets more money, they do not immediately think, "let's make more jobs."



    There are socially-minded companies out there. They tend to be smaller and privately held, but they exist even in the public sphere. They are, as best I can tell, the exception and not the rule. Most companies are driven by profit. Indeed, our legal system even drives them in that direction, because publicly traded companies can be sued if they do not prioritize their fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders. Those shareholders, statistically, are in the top 10% of the wage earners in the country, who directly or indirectly own over 95% of the publicly traded shares. Statistically, by the time you get to the 28th percentile, people earning below that have level have essentiall zero ownership (direct or indirect) in the market.

    This is one of the reasons I don't find Trump's boasting about the market all that compelling. It's doing a lot of those of us "at the top," but not for the vast majority of Americans.
    And there you said it again. To you most of the companies out there are evil greedy companies that do not care about their employees, but of course not YOUR company. YOU are an exception.

    Well, maybe there are more exceptions out there than you realize? Because every company I have worked for has actually cared about their employees and does things like profit sharing, paid benefits, raises both for cost of living and performance, etc. They want to make a profit but they also want to have happy employees. You have been watching too many hollywood movies about evil corporations taking over the world. Sure there are some bad ones out there, but I think THEY are the exception.

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