Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Don't Call God "He..."

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    If you go to the Amazon page
    https://www.amazon.com/Inclusive-Bib.../dp/1580512135

    and click on "look inside" there are quite a number of pages you can read.
    Google books also has a preview https://books.google.com/books?id=Qr...page&q&f=false and
    https://books.google.com/books?id=Cw...page&q&f=false

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
      And John specifically departs from Greek grammar rules in John 14:16 and elsewhere, using a masculine singular pronoun to refer to the neuter word for "Spirit".

      Blessings,
      Lee
      John 14:16 και εγω ερωτησω τον πατερα και αλλον παρακλητον δωσει υμιν ινα μενη μεθ υμων εις τον αιωνα. Byzantine Majority Text.

      Paraclete (the Holy Spirit as counsellor) is a masculine noun. ινα μενη does refer to the Holy Spirit though).
      16 κἀγὼ ἐρωτήσω τὸν πατέρα καὶ ἄλλον παρακλητον δώσει ὑμῖν, ἵνα μεθ’ ὑμῶν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα ᾖ, 17 το πνευμα: UBS5
      Last edited by tabibito; 02-03-2018, 11:09 PM.
      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
      Scripture before Tradition:
      but that won't prevent others from
      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
      of the right to call yourself Christian.

      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by psstein View Post
        When I have the time, I'd love to see how badly they distort the original Hebrew and Greek.
        How long have you had these masochistic tendencies?
        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
        Scripture before Tradition:
        but that won't prevent others from
        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
        of the right to call yourself Christian.

        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

        Comment


        • #34
          The problem with using 'He' in the English language is that it can be and is commonly used in the gender neutral sense. Anal retentive grammarians, misguided theologians, and believers think the they can artificially change the meaning of the gender definition of God in traditional Christian theology by pronoun manipulation remains superficial and not meaningful.

          In the English translations of the Baha'i writings 'He' is used simply because or the English pronoun neutral definition, and it is understood that in the original Arabic and Persian languages all pronoun references to God are gender neutral, because God is considered without gender.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            The problem with using 'He' in the English language is that it can be and is commonly used in the gender neutral sense. Anal retentive grammarians, misguided theologians, and believers think the they can artificially change the meaning of the gender definition of God in traditional Christian theology by pronoun manipulation remains superficial and not meaningful.

            In the English translations of the Baha'i writings 'He' is used simply because or the English pronoun neutral definition, and it is understood that in the original Arabic and Persian languages all pronoun references to God are gender neutral, because God is considered without gender.
            Then there's Jesus calling His Father, "Abba".

            In most Semitic languages, the word Abba (also rendered Ab or Aba) means "father" (or more affectionately "Papa" or "Daddy.") According to the Christian Gospels, Jesus used the word "Abba" when praying to God, which reflected a level of intimacy unheard of in the Old Testament era. Thus, we see in early Christian faith development what appears to be a deepening of human sensibility and relationship toward God, the Father, and the concomitant richer sensibility about God's representatives within the growing faith community.

            source
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Then there's Jesus calling His Father, "Abba".

              In most Semitic languages, the word Abba (also rendered Ab or Aba) means "father" (or more affectionately "Papa" or "Daddy.") According to the Christian Gospels, Jesus used the word "Abba" when praying to God, which reflected a level of intimacy unheard of in the Old Testament era. Thus, we see in early Christian faith development what appears to be a deepening of human sensibility and relationship toward God, the Father, and the concomitant richer sensibility about God's representatives within the growing faith community.

              source
              As previously noted
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              So we're supposed to just ignore the 150 to 160 times that Jesus refers to God as "father"? Including using the word "abba" which can be translated as "papa" or "daddy" a couple times?

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #37
                Why would the Christian god consider himself male? If the only purpose is for ease of cultural assimilation, then wouldn't the identity of a male god be based on convenience rather than preference? In that case, for what reason should this identification be continued today?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                  Why would the Christian god consider himself male? If the only purpose is for ease of cultural assimilation, then wouldn't the identity of a male god be based on convenience rather than preference? In that case, for what reason should this identification be continued today?
                  For what reason should it be changed? Just to add Him to all the other gender confusion in the world?
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    For what reason should it be changed? Just to add Him to all the other gender confusion in the world?
                    If it's no longer necessary, I don't see the harm in changing it if. It may lead people to a better spiritual connection and it doesn't hurt your connection.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                      If it's no longer necessary, I don't see the harm in changing it if. It may lead people to a better spiritual connection and it doesn't hurt your connection.
                      Yes, we should all get our theological positions from an atheist.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                        Why would the Christian god consider himself male? If the only purpose is for ease of cultural assimilation, then wouldn't the identity of a male god be based on convenience rather than preference? In that case, for what reason should this identification be continued today?
                        The culture out of which the Hebrew/Christian god was created was a patriarchal tribal warrior culture, so of course they're going to create a male god.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by psstein View Post
                          Yep, as Seer put it, there's a reason why the Anglican Communion is in terminal decline.
                          Christianity in Europe and elsewhere (e.g. Australia) is in rapid decline, it's not just the Anglicans. As well, "The Christian share of the U.S. population is declining, while the number of U.S. adults who do not identify with any organized religion is growing, according to an extensive new survey by the Pew Research Center. Moreover, these changes are taking place across the religious landscape, affecting all regions of the country and many demographic groups."

                          http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/a...ous-landscape/
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Yes, we should all get our theological positions from an atheist.
                            My argument should be right or wrong based on its on merits regardless of my religion.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                              My argument should be right or wrong based on its on merits regardless of my religion.
                              The records available show that God self identifies as "father" or "son" (ie male). In some places, refusal to accept gender self identification is illegal.
                              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                              .
                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                              Scripture before Tradition:
                              but that won't prevent others from
                              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                              of the right to call yourself Christian.

                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                The problem with using 'He' in the English language is that it can be and is commonly used in the gender neutral sense. Anal retentive grammarians, misguided theologians, and believers think the they can artificially change the meaning of the gender definition of God in traditional Christian theology by pronoun manipulation remains superficial and not meaningful.

                                In the English translations of the Baha'i writings 'He' is used simply because or the English pronoun neutral definition, and it is understood that in the original Arabic and Persian languages all pronoun references to God are gender neutral, because God is considered without gender.
                                The grammatical gender of nouns doesn't necessarily equate to the gender of the object they are attached to. But in the bible God refers to himself as "Father" and Jesus as "son" which takes out any ambiguity as to which gender God "self-identifies" as. Why can't you liberals be consistent? You go around preaching that people can choose their own pronouns and be any one of over 50 genders, yet you refuse to allow God to do the same?

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                189 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                419 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                114 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                198 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                88 responses
                                401 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X