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Trump lies and false news breaks all records

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
    The link goes to an opinion piece written by a Republican who was the chief speech-writer for President George W Bush.

    Even if we granted your ongoing BS claims that the WaPo is "left-wing": When they print an opinion piece authored by a right-winger and that right-winger makes dumb claims in the opinion piece, those are not opinions being expressed by the newspaper itself.

    So it wasn't "the left-wing Washington Post" who coined the phrase "Obama's Blizzard of Lies", it was George W Bush's chief propagandist/speech-writer. Which rather undercuts your point that 'even' the Washington Post was saying it. Rather it simply shows that Washington Post are fools enough to print right-wing garbage. (Of course, we also know they are fools because of how much they like to smear left-wingers like Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein, but that doesn't fit with your BS "they're left-wing" narrative)
    You're actually proving my point. Now let's see you attack the list of Trump's supposed "lies" with the same critical eye and generous benefit of the doubt.

    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #47
      I have to admit, I find most of this discussion somewhat...silly.

      I have no idea if Trump lies more than any other president in history. That is essentially impossible to measure, so it's a moot point. I only care that he lies a LOT, and never retracts anything. That is part of his philosophy: never apologize, never admit error - it signals weakness.

      And I don't care if there is a list for Obama too. That is "what aboutism." Trump's lies are not defended/justified by pointing to someone else who told untruths. It is simply a trick for redirecting the attention from the core issue: Trump lies a lot, does it regularly, never retracts, and defends it as an appropriate thing to do. Ergo, when he opens his mouth, I pretty much assume I'm going to be lied to at least a few times (probably more), and I take anything he says with a grain of salt until I can verify it.

      It also means that when he denies something he is accused of, I have reason to believe he is likely lying to me. He has essentiall yno credibility, because he is a self-identified liar and proud of it.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        I only care that he lies a LOT, and never retracts anything. That is part of his philosophy: never apologize, never admit error - it signals weakness.
        If you were to present this sentence without context, it would be impossible to tell which president you were referring to since it could, in fact, refer to any number of presidents at any give time. And besides, if you take away the generous liberal spin, you'll find that Trump's "lies" are not nearly so numerous as the liberal media wants you to believe.

        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        And I don't care if there is a list for Obama too.
        I know you don't, because it demolishes the liberal narrative that Trump is an anomaly in the way he supposedly carries himself as president, and that other presidents, such as Saint Obama, are somehow immune to such criticisms.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Roy View Post
          Whoopers are large swans.
          I'm well aware of that - I've just never heard of lies being referred to as "whoopers". Rather than jump to the conclusion that he misspelled, I wondered if that was actually "a thing".
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            If you were to present this sentence without context, it would be impossible to tell which president you were referring to since it could, in fact, refer to any number of presidents at any give time.
            As well as to some TWebbers.
            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Roy View Post
              As well as to some TWebbers.
              Indeed it could, Roy.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                Failure to engage with the substance of my post.

                You claimed Trump has told more lies than any other President. That's unverifiable (as Tellaura pointed out) and you've given no source for that claim.
                I gave a source so far no response, which is the standard three Stooges; duck, bob and weave.

                No response on the long chain of specific documented lies and more to follow.

                I will ad another as the list grows longer by the day:

                Trump claims that failure of the Democrats to applaud his speak was treason.

                Trumps lies are daily occurence in Tweets and speeches, and interviews
                Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-07-2018, 11:20 AM.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  I gave a source so far no response, which is the standard three Stooges; duck, bob and weave.

                  No response on the long chain of specific documented lies and more to follow.

                  I will ad another as the list grows longer by the day:

                  Trump claims that failure of the Democrats to applaud his speak was treason.

                  Trumps lies are daily occurence in Tweets and speeches, and interviews
                  I agree that Trump lies regularly. I also agree "more than any other president" is not a supportable claim. We simply lack the data for many presidents on how much they actually lied. Many of them were famous for it. I also have to question if the "treason" comment qualifies as a lie. The word "treason" has lost its original, formal, meaning. It is tossed around by politicians and voters like candy. Support gun control legislation and you are treasonous. Support voter ID laws and you are treasonous. I distinguish between hyperbole and outright lying. I put the treason comment in the former bucket, along with most other superlatives Trump has regularly used (e.g., "no one supports women more than me," "I'm the least racist person you've ever interviewed/met," etc. etc.). I think we cross from hyperbole into lying when the claim is about data, it is shown to be false, and it continues to be claimed. So the "biggest tax cut ever" is just an outright lie. It isn't even the biggest tax cut in the last few decades. "Won by a landslide" is simply a lie - his win ranks 47th out of 56 elections thus far.

                  [Interesting side note: I had no idea that in 52 of the 57 presidential elections held thus far, the winner of the popular vote also won the electoral college. The five that didn't were Adams (1824, Democratic-Republican), Hayes (1876, Republican), Harrison (1888, Republican), Bush (2000, Republican) and Trump (2016, Republican). I had no clue that each and every such situation involved Republicans. No WONDER Republicans are so enamored of the electoral college.]
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Two months before the presidential election, Lisa Page wrote to fellow FBI official Peter Strzok that she was working on a memo for then-FBI director James Comey because Obama 'wants to know everything we're doing.'

                    Obama had said five months earlier during a Fox News Channel interview that he could 'guarantee' he wouldn't interfere with that investigation.

                    'I do not talk to the attorney general about pending investigations. I do not talk to FBI directors about pending investigations. We have a strict line,' he said on April 10, 2016.

                    'I guarantee it. I guarantee that there is no political influence in any investigation conducted by the Justice Department or the FBI, not just in this case but in any case. Full stop. Period,' he said.'

                    source


                    Kinda like "you can keep your doctor, period"
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Two months before the presidential election, Lisa Page wrote to fellow FBI official Peter Strzok that she was working on a memo for then-FBI director James Comey because Obama 'wants to know everything we're doing.'

                      Obama had said five months earlier during a Fox News Channel interview that he could 'guarantee' he wouldn't interfere with that investigation.

                      'I do not talk to the attorney general about pending investigations. I do not talk to FBI directors about pending investigations. We have a strict line,' he said on April 10, 2016.

                      'I guarantee it. I guarantee that there is no political influence in any investigation conducted by the Justice Department or the FBI, not just in this case but in any case. Full stop. Period,' he said.'

                      source


                      Kinda like "you can keep your doctor, period"
                      see he told the truth! he didn't talk to FBI directors, he talked to FBI "officials"

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Two months before the presidential election, Lisa Page wrote to fellow FBI official Peter Strzok that she was working on a memo for then-FBI director James Comey because Obama 'wants to know everything we're doing.'

                        Obama had said five months earlier during a Fox News Channel interview that he could 'guarantee' he wouldn't interfere with that investigation.

                        'I do not talk to the attorney general about pending investigations. I do not talk to FBI directors about pending investigations. We have a strict line,' he said on April 10, 2016.

                        'I guarantee it. I guarantee that there is no political influence in any investigation conducted by the Justice Department or the FBI, not just in this case but in any case. Full stop. Period,' he said.'

                        source


                        Kinda like "you can keep your doctor, period"
                        So can someone explain to me, when someone says, "Trump lies regularly and defends it as appropriate," a meaningful response is "well, Obama did it too!"

                        If you tell your son, "I do not like the fact that you lie to me," and they respond, "but Dad, my brother/sister does it too!" would you accept that response?
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          So can someone explain to me, when someone says, "Trump lies regularly and defends it as appropriate," a meaningful response is "well, Obama did it too!"
                          It seems to be par for the course in politics.

                          If you tell your son, "I do not like the fact that you lie to me," and they respond, "but Dad, my brother/sister does it too!" would you accept that response?
                          I have power over the son, as well as the brother/sister, so the analogy fails.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            So can someone explain to me, when someone says, "Trump lies regularly and defends it as appropriate," a meaningful response is "well, Obama did it too!"

                            If you tell your son, "I do not like the fact that you lie to me," and they respond, "but Dad, my brother/sister does it too!" would you accept that response?
                            Mostly because Shuny and JimL and co. think Obama walked on water and only Trump is an evil liar. It is not to excuse Trump but to show that Obama was no different. Or Bill Clinton.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Mostly because Shuny and JimL and co. think Obama walked on water and only Trump is an evil liar. It is not to excuse Trump but to show that Obama was no different. Or Bill Clinton.
                              And it is stiill not clear to me why that is the default response I see. All politicians lie to varying degrees. Trump is the first politician I know of who has publicly stated that lying is an acceptabl strategy to get what you want, and lies multiple times in almost every speech and lies in many tweets. "I am a self-avowed liar and I think it's an acceptable thing to do," is an odd position for people to stand behind and defend. Ive even heard it defended with "it's so refreshing to have someone who is honest about it!"
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                I gave a source so far no response, which is the standard three Stooges; duck, bob and weave.
                                Except the source you cited did not actually support your point. As I noted, the most you have proved is that Trump lies a bunch. That does not back up your claim that he has "set records" or has done more than any previous president.

                                So, again, still waiting for actual proof of your claim of him breaking records.

                                Comment

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