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Democrat Rebutal to Nunes Memo

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  • Democrat Rebutal to Nunes Memo

    So the committee apparently voted for its release.

    Anyone forming a pool on what Trump will do?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  • #2
    I foresee a tweet or two.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      I foresee a tweet or two.
      Ya think?
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        So the committee apparently voted for its release.

        Anyone forming a pool on what Trump will do?
        He'll release it.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          Ya think?
          Or, perhaps a twitterstorm.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            He'll release it.
            I expect he will. Probably unhappily. I will happily engage as vigorously as possible in #ReleaseTheRebuttal, or whatever hashtaggery occurs, if he does not.

            And release the dossier, the FISA application, flippin' EVERYTHING.
            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

            Beige Federalist.

            Nationalist Christian.

            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

            Proud member of the this space left blank community.

            Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

            Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

            Justice for Matthew Perna!

            Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

            Comment


            • #7
              Hopefully Mueller issues another round of indictments within the next week and releases a bit more information about how his investigation is going. That would bring the media a bit more back on topic from the irrelevant Nunes memo distraction.

              Be interesting to see what Trump does with the Dem memo though. Trump's not a guy who tends to believe in free speech, so he'll probably label it 'fake news' in multiple tweets and refuse to release it, and have to have his arm twisted by public pressure.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                I foresee a tweet or two.
                Tweet! Tweet!
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  Hopefully Mueller issues another round of indictments within the next week and releases a bit more information about how his investigation is going. That would bring the media a bit more back on topic from the irrelevant Nunes memo distraction.

                  Be interesting to see what Trump does with the Dem memo though. Trump's not a guy who tends to believe in free speech, so he'll probably label it 'fake news' in multiple tweets and refuse to release it, and have to have his arm twisted by public pressure.
                  The House can vote to release it over Trump's objections.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                    I expect he will. Probably unhappily. I will happily engage as vigorously as possible in #ReleaseTheRebuttal, or whatever hashtaggery occurs, if he does not.

                    And release the dossier, the FISA application, flippin' EVERYTHING.
                    The dossier has been available for quite some time now, FWIU.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      Hopefully Mueller issues another round of indictments within the next week and releases a bit more information about how his investigation is going.
                      Maybe this time they will have something at least remotely to do with what Trump was doing.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Maybe this time they will have something at least remotely to do with what Trump was doing.
                        Yup, well hopefully.

                        Investigations apparently typically work by closing in around the target firstly by flipping someone on the outer edge and giving them a plea bargain in exchange for information on the next layer in, and then again to work their way into the center. We've had a group of 4 people on the outer edge indicted and much talk of deals made with them and flipping of them. Most liberal commentators appeared to be expecting two more sets of indictments, firstly of a middlely-involved group and subsequent attempts to flip them, and finally of Trump and his immediate conspirators.

                        Of course, in the case of Papadopoulos it turned out he had been indicted months earlier and had flipped and been wearing a wire for Mueller. So if it was months before that information became public, it's totally possible that Mueller has issued more indictments that simply haven't been made public yet. Given the information being leaked about Flynn's plea deal it seemed pretty certain that they were getting enough information out of Flynn to indict someone else (otherwise why give him so much leniency?), and so far it hasn't been made public who was indicted (or is to be indicted) with Flynn's information.

                        The investigation looks to be drawing to a close with it being made clear that Mueller wants to interview Trump, as commentators have noted that investigators always interview the top guy last after they have gathered all the other information and thus know exactly what questions to ask (and can tell if the answers are lies). However, it seems like Trump is trying to refuse to be interviewed, which may complicate the wrap-up of the investigation. Honestly I'd prefer to have it over regardless of how it turns out, as the investigation's existence ties up time and media focus that would be better spent focusing on Trump's horrible policies (e.g. the Republican 'deficit hawks' increasing the deficit by 84%, or them casually spending an extra $100 billion (double what making college tuition free would cost) on defense spending this year, or them taking healthcare away from people etc...).


                        P.S. Just spotted this headline in my newsfeed, out today:
                        BOB MUELLER’S INVESTIGATION IS LARGER—AND FURTHER ALONG—THAN YOU THINK:

                        the Mueller investigation appears to have been picking up steam in the past three weeks—and homing in on a series of targets...

                        What are the known knowns of the Mueller investigation, and where might it be heading?

                        The first thing we know is that we know it is large.

                        We speak about the “Mueller probe” as a single entity, but it’s important to understand that there are no fewer than five (known) separate investigations under the broad umbrella of the special counsel’s office...

                        1. Preexisting Business Deals and Money Laundering...
                        2. Russian Information Operations...
                        3. Active Cyber Intrusions...
                        4. Russian Campaign Contacts...
                        5. Obstruction of Justice...

                        ...large parts of the investigation remain out of sight. While we’ve seen four indictments or guilty pleas, they only involve threads one (money laundering) and four (Russian campaign contacts). We haven’t seen any public moves or charges by Mueller’s team regarding the information operations, the active cyber intrusions, or the obstruction of justice investigation.

                        ...Mueller has in recent weeks been interviewing senior and central figures, like Comey and Sessions. He’s also begun working to interview President Trump himself. Given that standard procedure would be to interview the central figure in an investigation last—when all the evidence is gathered—it seems likely that such interest means that Mueller is confident he knows what he needs to know for the obstruction case, at least.
                        Last edited by Starlight; 02-06-2018, 04:53 AM.
                        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          so it is going to take 10 pages to refute a 3 page memo? I smell a lot of spin coming our way, but I am for releasing as much information from both sides as possible.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                            I expect he will. Probably unhappily.
                            According to one congressional Republican, the Democrat version of the memo tries to reach different conclusions but doesn't actually dispute any of the facts contained in the first memo.

                            Source: House Intel Committee Votes Unanimously to Release Democratic Memo

                            Rep. Mark Meadows (R-NC) told reporters on Friday that there were some “errors” in [the Democrat] memo, and it attempts to draw “different conclusions.”

                            “Having read the Democrat memo already, and I’ve gone on record to say if they’ll correct some of the errors in their memo, which was really a counter-memo to this memo, trying to spin a different narrative, it did not contradict any of the facts that are in this memo,” he said.

                            “So anything that you’ve read in the four pages, there is nothing in their memo that would contradict those facts,” he said...

                            http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...mocratic-memo/

                            © Copyright Original Source


                            For example, according to the Washington Compost, Democrats are saying that the FBI did disclose that "the research was being paid for by a political entity", which is such a charmingly vague euphemism and conceals the fact that it was unverified research from a source that was strongly biased against Trump and paid for by Hillary and the Democrats. Even worse, it seems that Hillary and her buddies were feeding information to Steele through Obama's State Department.

                            Source: Clinton Associates Fed Information to Dossier Author Steele, Grassley-Graham Memo Says

                            According to Grassley and Graham’s memo, which is heavily redacted at the request of the FBI, a foreign source gave information to friends of Bill and Hillary Clinton, who then gave it to an Obama State Department official, who then gave it to Steele.

                            Grassley and Graham’s memo stated:

                            One memorandum by Mr. Steele that was not published by Buzzfeed is dated October 19, 2016. The report alleges [redacted], as well as [redacted]. Mr. Steele’s memorandum states that his company ‘received his report from [redacted] US State Department,’ that the report was the second in a series, and that the report was information that came from a foreign sub-source who ‘is in touch with [redacted], a contact of [redacted], a friend of the Clintons, who passed it to [redacted].

                            “It is troubling enough that the Clinton Campaign funded Mr. Steele’s work, but these Clinton associates were contemporaneously feeding Mr. Steele allegations raises additional concerns about his credibility,” Grassley and Graham wrote.

                            http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ham-memo-says/

                            © Copyright Original Source


                            As Mark Levin astutely observed, "Hillary Clinton paid for a warrant. That’s the easiest way we can put it."
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              According to one congressional Republican, the Democrat version of the memo tries to reach different conclusions but doesn't actually dispute any of the facts contained in the first memo.

                              Source: House Intel Committee Votes Unanimously to Release Democratic Memo

                              Rep. Mark Meadows (R-NC) told reporters on Friday that there were some “errors” in [the Democrat] memo, and it attempts to draw “different conclusions.”

                              “Having read the Democrat memo already, and I’ve gone on record to say if they’ll correct some of the errors in their memo, which was really a counter-memo to this memo, trying to spin a different narrative, it did not contradict any of the facts that are in this memo,” he said.

                              “So anything that you’ve read in the four pages, there is nothing in their memo that would contradict those facts,” he said...

                              http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...mocratic-memo/

                              © Copyright Original Source


                              For example, according to the Washington Compost, Democrats are saying that the FBI did disclose that "the research was being paid for by a political entity", which is such a charmingly vague euphemism and conceals the fact that it was unverified research from a source that was strongly biased against Trump and paid for by Hillary and the Democrats. Even worse, it seems that Hillary and her buddies were feeding information to Steele through Obama's State Department.

                              Source: Clinton Associates Fed Information to Dossier Author Steele, Grassley-Graham Memo Says

                              According to Grassley and Graham’s memo, which is heavily redacted at the request of the FBI, a foreign source gave information to friends of Bill and Hillary Clinton, who then gave it to an Obama State Department official, who then gave it to Steele.

                              Grassley and Graham’s memo stated:

                              One memorandum by Mr. Steele that was not published by Buzzfeed is dated October 19, 2016. The report alleges [redacted], as well as [redacted]. Mr. Steele’s memorandum states that his company ‘received his report from [redacted] US State Department,’ that the report was the second in a series, and that the report was information that came from a foreign sub-source who ‘is in touch with [redacted], a contact of [redacted], a friend of the Clintons, who passed it to [redacted].

                              “It is troubling enough that the Clinton Campaign funded Mr. Steele’s work, but these Clinton associates were contemporaneously feeding Mr. Steele allegations raises additional concerns about his credibility,” Grassley and Graham wrote.

                              http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ham-memo-says/

                              © Copyright Original Source


                              As Mark Levin astutely observed, "Hillary Clinton paid for a warrant. That’s the easiest way we can put it."
                              The inclusion of more information from the original material definitely leads to a different conclusion. We shall wait and see.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment

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