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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Paul�s basket escape from Damascus (Robert Eisenman)
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Even though I'm not at all familiar specifically with Eisenman's argument, I've heard the argument that the gospels are antisemitic, so I'm generally very privy to this argument and know it can easily be debunked. Funny thing is that Matthew's gospel has especially been leveled the charge of antisemitic when the fact is that the writer of Matthew was Jewish writing to Jews. The pro-Semitism and pro-Davidic king and pro-Israel proclamations peppered throughout Luke's gospel, especially in the beginning, would be contradictory to Eisenman's argument, but I'm sure Eisenman avoids that issue all together. Of course, I'm assuming he does as I have no desire to watch all those videos because it's frankly an amateurish argument.
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At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas was guarding the city of Damascus in order to seize me, but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his hands. (2 Corinthians 11:32-33)
Saul increased all the more in strength, and confounded the Jews who lived in Damascus by proving that Jesus was the Christ. When many days had passed, the Jews plotted to kill him, but their plot became known to Saul. They were watching the gates day and night in order to kill him, but his disciples took him by night and let him down through an opening in the wall, lowering him in a basket. (Acts 9:22-25)
The two brief anecdotes emphasize different aspects of the same event. Throughout Acts in particular, the Jews regularly used Roman "muscle" to try to squelch Paul's message, so presumably the same thing happened in Damascus.
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Originally posted by RBerman View PostAt Damascus, the governor under King Aretas was guarding the city of Damascus in order to seize me, but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his hands. (2 Corinthians 11:32-33)
Saul increased all the more in strength, and confounded the Jews who lived in Damascus by proving that Jesus was the Christ. When many days had passed, the Jews plotted to kill him, but their plot became known to Saul. They were watching the gates day and night in order to kill him, but his disciples took him by night and let him down through an opening in the wall, lowering him in a basket. (Acts 9:22-25)
The two brief anecdotes emphasize different aspects of the same event. Throughout Acts in particular, the Jews regularly used Roman "muscle" to try to squelch Paul's message, so presumably the same thing happened in Damascus.
I once heard a sermon in which the pastor criticized David's lack of faith in fleeing Saul. He told Michal that God had chosen him over her father. As such, there never was any danger of the illegitimate king killing the actual divinely appointed king.
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Originally posted by whag View PostIf Paul was on a divine mission, his life was in no real danger. All he had to do was walk through the gates.
I once heard a sermon in which the pastor criticized David's lack of faith in fleeing Saul. He told Michal that God had chosen him over her father. As such, there never was any danger of the illegitimate king killing the actual divinely appointed king."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Jesus even said when people were to flee when in danger. Where does the Bible say you shouldn't escape danger when you can? Should you not go in the basement when there's a tornado? One should not presume on the extent of God's protection.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostJesus even said when people were to flee when in danger. Where does the Bible say you shouldn't escape danger when you can? Should you not go in the basement when there's a tornado? One should not presume on the extent of God's protection."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by whag View PostIf Paul was on a divine mission, his life was in no real danger. All he had to do was walk through the gates. I once heard a sermon in which the pastor criticized David's lack of faith in fleeing Saul. He told Michal that God had chosen him over her father. As such, there never was any danger of the illegitimate king killing the actual divinely appointed king.
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Originally posted by RBerman View PostThis is the same argument that Satan used to argue that Jesus should just jump off the top of the temple and let God save him. How did Jesus respond?
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Originally posted by whag View PostIf Paul was on a divine mission, his life was in no real danger. All he had to do was walk through the gates.
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post"You shall NOT TEST the LORD your GOD!!!"
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Originally posted by seanD View PostYou're very insightful to recognize the humanness of the saints portrayed in the NT, as opposed to how they are portrayed in the later apocryphal legends. Christians can associate themselves to the human frailties and imperfections of the earlier portrayals.
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Originally posted by RBerman View PostAt Damascus, the governor under King Aretas was guarding the city of Damascus in order to seize me, but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his hands. (2 Corinthians 11:32-33)
Saul increased all the more in strength, and confounded the Jews who lived in Damascus by proving that Jesus was the Christ. When many days had passed, the Jews plotted to kill him, but their plot became known to Saul. They were watching the gates day and night in order to kill him, but his disciples took him by night and let him down through an opening in the wall, lowering him in a basket. (Acts 9:22-25)
The two brief anecdotes emphasize different aspects of the same event. Throughout Acts in particular, the Jews regularly used Roman "muscle" to try to squelch Paul's message, so presumably the same thing happened in Damascus.
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Originally posted by whag View PostBelievers handling vipers would be more parallel. In the case of Paul, it wouldn't be an arrogant challenge for God to protect him but a simple demonstration of fearlessness. Quaffing poison sounds like a vaudeville act.
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