King Solomon and Deuteronomy 13

[Christian3]

Deuteronomy 13

2. If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,

3. and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them,"

4. you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.

5. You shall follow the Lord, your God, fear Him, keep His commandments, heed His voice, worship Him, and cleave to Him.

6. And that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death; because he spoke falsehood about the Lord, your God Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeemed you from the house of bondage, to lead you astray from the way in which the Lord, your God, commanded you to go; so shall you clear away the evil from your midst.

7. If your brother, the son of your mother, tempts you in secret or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your embrace, or your friend, who is as your own soul saying, "Let us go and worship other gods, which neither you, nor your forefathers have known."

8. Of the gods of the peoples around you, [whether] near to you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth;

9. You shall not desire him, and you shall not hearken to him; neither shall you pity him, have mercy upon him, nor shield him.

10. But you shall surely kill him, your hand shall be the first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

11. And you shall stone him with stones so that he dies, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

King Solomon turned to idols. How did he escape being stoned?

Thank you.

[Paprika]

King

Done.

[Christian3]

Done.

Are you saying a King is above the law?

[Paprika]

Are you saying a King is above the law?

Often, effectively, yes. Also, at many points in the history of Israel, idolatry was common so we know that the law against idolatry wasn't enforced for many periods.

[KingsGambit]

The data we have from the OT history books is that for most of Israel's history, the law was more or less ignored (or at best selectively followed).

[Christian3]

Often, effectively, yes. Also, at many points in the history of Israel, idolatry was common so we know that the law against idolatry wasn't enforced for many periods.

What is your take on this?

9 When Solomon finished building the temple of the Lord, the royal palace, and all that Solomon desired to do, 2 the Lord appeared to Solomon a second time just as He had appeared to him at Gibeon. 3 The Lord said to him:

I have heard your prayer and petition you have made before Me. I have consecrated this temple you have built, to put My name there forever; My eyes and My heart will be there at all times.

4 As for you, if you walk before Me as your father David walked, with a heart of integrity and in what is right, doing everything I have commanded you, and if you keep My statutes and ordinances, 5 I will establish your royal throne over Israel forever,and if you go and serve other gods and worship them, 7 I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them, and I will reject[a] the temple I have sanctified for My name. Israel will become an object of scorn and ridicule among all the peoples. 8 Though this temple is now exalted,[b] everyone who passes by will be appalled and will mock.[c] They will say: Why did the Lord do this to this land and this temple? 9 Then they will say: Because they abandoned the Lord their God who brought their ancestors out of the land of Egypt. They clung to other gods and worshiped and served them. Because of this, the Lord brought all this ruin on them.

[Paprika]

What is your take on this?

9 When Solomon finished building the temple of the Lord, the royal palace, and all that Solomon desired to do, 2 the Lord appeared to Solomon a second time just as He had appeared to him at Gibeon. 3 The Lord said to him:

I have heard your prayer and petition you have made before Me. I have consecrated this temple you have built, to put My name there forever; My eyes and My heart will be there at all times.

4 As for you, if you walk before Me as your father David walked, with a heart of integrity and in what is right, doing everything I have commanded you, and if you keep My statutes and ordinances, 5 I will establish your royal throne over Israel forever,and if you go and serve other gods and worship them, 7 I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them, and I will reject[a] the temple I have sanctified for My name. Israel will become an object of scorn and ridicule among all the peoples. 8 Though this temple is now exalted,[b] everyone who passes by will be appalled and will mock.[c] They will say: Why did the Lord do this to this land and this temple? 9 Then they will say: Because they abandoned the Lord their God who brought their ancestors out of the land of Egypt. They clung to other gods and worshiped and served them. Because of this, the Lord brought all this ruin on them.

They were exiled from the land as promised by God?

[Christian3]

Often, effectively, yes. Also, at many points in the history of Israel, idolatry was common so we know that the law against idolatry wasn't enforced for many periods.

Can you find any evidence that King Solomon repented?

[Christian3]

They were exiled from the land as promised by God?

OK.

[Paprika]

Can you find any evidence that King Solomon repented?

No, and I don't see what you're driving at here.

[Christian3]

No, and I don't see what you're driving at here.

If King Solomon repented because he worshipped idols, then he would have been forgiven.

[KingsGambit]

If King Solomon repented because he worshipped idols, then he would have been forgiven.

The promise isn't talking about the punishment of the individual person who worships idols. It's about Israel as a whole. Eventually, after Solomon's lifetime, Israel did fall.

[Avraham Ibn Ezra]

Deuteronomy 13

2. If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,

3. and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them,"

4. you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.

5. You shall follow the Lord, your God, fear Him, keep His commandments, heed His voice, worship Him, and cleave to Him.

6. And that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death; because he spoke falsehood about the Lord, your God Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeemed you from the house of bondage, to lead you astray from the way in which the Lord, your God, commanded you to go; so shall you clear away the evil from your midst.

7. If your brother, the son of your mother, tempts you in secret or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your embrace, or your friend, who is as your own soul saying, "Let us go and worship other gods, which neither you, nor your forefathers have known."

8. Of the gods of the peoples around you, [whether] near to you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth;

9. You shall not desire him, and you shall not hearken to him; neither shall you pity him, have mercy upon him, nor shield him.

10. But you shall surely kill him, your hand shall be the first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

11. And you shall stone him with stones so that he dies, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

King Solomon turned to idols. How did he escape being stoned?

Thank you.

There is a cultural taboo in Judaism against killing the anointed of HaShem. See King David's response to calls for him to kill King Saul, the anointed of G-d, in 1 Samuel 24. David refuses to kill King Saul and feels guilty for even cutting a piece of cloth off of Saul.

If you look at the biblical narrative the anointed of G-d is typically killed by non Jews and if the anointed is killed by a Jew there is a stiff penalty exacted by G-d on that person.

Shalom,

Avraham Ibn Ezra

[mitzi]

see Psalms 20 - Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary on the Bible):

Ezra 7

O Adam, what have you done? For though it was you who sinned, the fall was not yours alone, but ours also who are your descendants.
[49(119)] For what good is it to us, if an eternal age has been promised to us, but we have done deeds that bring death?
[50(120)] And what good is it that an everlasting hope has been promised to us, but we have miserably failed?
[51(121)] Or that safe and healthful habitations have been reserved for us, but we have lived wickedly?
[52(122)] Or that the glory of the Most High will defend those who have led a pure life, but we have walked in the most wicked ways?
[53(123)] Or that a paradise shall be revealed, whose fruit remains unspoiled and in which are abundance and healing, but we shall not enter it,
[54(124)] because we have lived in unseemly places?
[55(125)] Or that the faces of those who practiced self-control shall shine more than the stars, but our faces shall be blacker than darkness?
[56(126)] For while we lived and committed iniquity we did not consider what we should suffer after death."
[57(127)] He answered and said, "This is the meaning of the contest which every man who is born on earth shall wage,
[58(128)] that if he is defeated he shall suffer what you have said, but if he is victorious he shall receive what I have said.
[59(129)] For this is the way of which Moses, while he was alive, spoke to the people, saying, `Choose for yourself life, that you may live!'


With the commentary that was given by Matthew Henry - we should all remember what makes a great leader!

[mitzi]

If King Solomon repented because he worshipped idols, then he would have been forgiven.

14If you fear the Lord and serve and obey him and do not rebel against his commands,. 25Yet if you persist in doing evil, both you and your king will perish

I think the key to what you're asking is in the last sentence. The conditions that Samuel is stressing on the people who had "asked for a King" is that both the people and the king will be punished if they don't follow the law (both go hand in hand, now back up to Ezra 7 - the paragraph emphasizes the samething, what happens to the people happens to the king)....... Also, I think that in Deuteronomy 8,10,13,17,29 or 32 ( Chapter 32 was stressed more) was the beginning with the divisions of the clans (see Exodus: After Moses had begun to lead the Israelites on their Exodus, it was Jethro that encouraged Moses to appoint others to share in the burden of ministry to the nation Israel by allowing others to help in the judgment of smaller matters coming before him. This takes place in the Torah portion Yitro (Exodus 18:1-20:23).) but then came Samuel choosing a king for the people - everything seemed to lead towards a nation and king. Mitzi