Florida School Shooting

[Psychic Missile]

No they didn't. In fact, one of them, Jesus Campos, was shot by the gunman BEFORE he started shooting the crowd. Campos was unarmed.

Campos was armed, but MGM says in this article that hey have an armed security team and this is corroborated with this article quotes a former security guard saying that armed guards patrol the hotel.

And WRT Pulse, the officer traded fire with the suspect. Probably saved several lives by forcing him deeper into the club bathroom, allowing many to escape.

I agree that he helped, and possibly prevented more deaths, but he didn't stop the shooter.

Spanning 214,000 acres, and where only the Military Police are allowed to have live rounds.

He was in a heavily populated area in a military base. Outside of a police station, I can't think of many other places that should be more resistant to a spree shooter.

But in many cases, as exampled above, it reduces the potential damage.

Possibly. What it doesn't do is significantly affect the problem in any way.

[Psychic Missile]

According to West Palm Beach TV, the armed security officer at the school never even went in to engage the shooter.

That's a problem with the armed security solution. Their competence or resolve can't be tested until it's too late.

[Psychic Missile]

I don't live in other countries, and the gun issue is particularly a liberal gun grabber issue. The controls we see in the various parts of the US have failed miserably.

Were those controls definitive solutions or token efforts in the face of an NRA-bought government?

[Mountain Man]

I don't follow. It sounds the same to me. Nothing in the phrase "putting guns in the hands of staff" implies that everyone gets a gun.

It's a borderline straw man that makes it sound like guns will be indiscriminately handed out to anybody who wants one.

[Mountain Man]

"Just let the cops handle it"

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...orida-shooting

As the saying goes, "Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

We may as well add to that: "And they won't necessarily do their job when they arrive."

[Mountain Man]

Klarevas disagrees with gun advocates who define a "gun-free zone" as simply an area that bans private citizens from carrying a gun.

That's precisely what a "gun free zone" is. If you want to split hairs like your source does then they're not strictly gun free because local and federal law enforcement personnel can carry a gun wherever they want, so using that interpretation of the definition, "gun free zones" don't exist at all, which is obviously a stupid position to take. The common understanding is that private citizens are forbidden from carrying arms, meaning the vast majority of potential targets will be helpless.

At any rate, the study I posted has a very detailed explanation of its methodology and described each shooting included in the study in considerable detail and justifies its inclusion in the list. It's not just an arbitrary grab bag of mass shootings like your rebuttal implies.

As always, I encourage people to read the facts for themselves:

https://crimeresearch.org/2014/09/mo...ass-shootings/

[seer]

It came just weeks after a relative called urging BSO to seize his weaponswith no apparent result.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...201636649.html

[Cow Poke]

It nevertheless puts the lie to the argument that armed personnel on campus would be a solution to the problem.

Wow.... because an armed guard DIDN'T DO HIS JOB is proof that he couldn't have. What a moronic statement.

[Cow Poke]

A game changer in the sense that it tells us the obvious: That a probably-not-particularly-well-paid and probably-not-particularly-well-trained security guard is unlikely to want to put his own life in danger by running in and getting shot?

What an ignorant statement. He was a fully commissioned police officer, not a security guard. He was onsite, but did not engage the shooter.

[Cow Poke]

Why do you believe it is right for ANYONE to own military style assault weapons?

Why do you assume I believe something I don't believe, Trumpman?

[Mountain Man]

As long as you're willing to do a "post-incident-debrief" then what of the fact that Cruz was part of a school system that had idiotic progressive policies which essentially tied the hands of the local police and shielded Cruz from facing the legal consequences of previous crimes -- including at least one assault committed a year ago. The school's mantra was "Keep kids out of the courtroom and in the classroom," which ignores the very real fact that some kids deserve to be in a courtroom.

More details emerge:

Source: Parkland school cop �never went in� during the shooting. There were other failures, too.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...201636649.html

© Copyright Original Source

[Cow Poke]

As the saying goes, "Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

We may as well add to that: "And they won't necessarily do their job when they arrive."

So, the coach who knew and loved these kids gave his life for them.
The "hired gun" fully commissioned police officer hid.

If the coach had had the officer's weapon, things could have turned out way differently.

CORAL SPRINGS, Fla. - Loved ones gathered Thursday for the funeral of Aaron Feis, an assistant football coach at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School who was killed in the mass shooting last week.

Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel, who has known Feis for many years and whose children graduated from Stoneman Douglas, was among those who spoke at the funeral.

"This world lost an incredible, incredible man," Israel said.

The sheriff said several head football coaches have come and gone since Feis, 37, was hired at Stoneman Douglas, but each coach kept Feis on their staff.

"Everybody wanted him. Everyone needed him," Israel said. "He was the connection to the kids. Kids would do more for Feis than for others. Why? Because they didn't want to let Feis down."

Israel said Feis previously spoke to him about joining a law enforcement agency, and pondered whether to consider the Broward Sheriff's Office or the Coral Springs Police Department.

The sheriff said he told the coach, "'Feis, you're not leaving Douglas High School.'"

THIS is the kind of person I have in mind IF it should be allowed to arm specific individuals in the school system.

[Mountain Man]

Wow.... because an armed guard DIDN'T DO HIS JOB is proof that he couldn't have. What a moronic statement.

What it does is illustrate the dangers of leaving the safety of innocent civilians in the hands of a single armed person. If there had been multiple staff members on site armed and trained to respond to emergency situations then I know for a fact that this incident would have unfolded differently. The officer is only human, and these things happen, but one person freezing is a lot less disastrous if he has a dozen other people backing him up.

[Sparko]

Out of all the officers in the country, some are by necessity incompetent, at least to some degree or in some arena. That's just how large sample sizes of professionals are. It needs to be made sure that when a weak link inevitably breaks, it doesn't result in tragedy.

So basically you want to blame the guns even when it is blatently obvious that the entire tragedy could have been prevented at many points along the timeline, from the school failing to report him to authorities, to the mental health professionals who were treating him, to the FBI who was warned about him, to the deputy who just stood there outside while he mowed down students?

You are such a tool. Liberal puppet.

[Littlejoe]

How have gun ownership restrictions failed? Plenty of other countries have them and also have less shootings. That sounds like a success to me.

Correlation does not equal causation...

We know this because the leaders on the board for most gun homicides are countries with very restrictive gun laws...