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Florida School Shooting

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  • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
    the last statement is an outright lie but I'm sure bad faith arguments will help you get what you want
    Even that bit about the "DOT bar" is a stretch. It's actually an ICC Bar (Interstate Commerce Commission) and will NOT stop a car going any appreciable speed from rear-ending the trailer and sliding underneath. BUT.... it makes a good story for anybody who doesn't check it out.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
      The only one that makes any sense as an analogy is the fertilizer one. 1967 and 1982 are simply an adjustment in construction of a product to make it safer, which is not applicable here because the suggestion is to make it harder to purchase a product, not to change the construction of it. The 2001 one is an easy-to-enact policy change. You're comparing what are simple adjustments to something that's a whole lot more complex.

      I'd also be curious as to how many of those gun deaths would be considered legitimately the fault of the guns, i.e. they would not or could not be done without access to them. For example, are suicides included in those? Because lack of gun is not really a barrier to suicide. Does it include gun deaths that are self-defense? Those certainly aren't a problem (even if one thinks that self defense laws need to be adjusted, that's not the fault of the weapons involved). Does it include gun deaths in gang wars? Because they'd simply switch to a different weapon to kill each other with.
      It's a really silly comparison - I'm actually surprised that Carpe offered it as something that he found "compelling". Even the Tylenol thing is a joke. "It takes a PhD, channel locks, and a sharp object to get into a bottle of pills". That's beyond goofy. The child proof (or child resistant) lid for medicine bottles has been around since the late 60's / early 70's, and the regulations (ISO 8317) require that it must tested to be openable by most adults. The "channel locks" thing is drama.

      What was added as a result of the Tylenol deaths was tamper-proof packaging (seals), not the child resistant lids.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        I know we've discussed this before, but rates of violent crime in Australia were the same before and after your infsmous "buy back" program. The only thing that changed was the weapon of choice. When denied guns, the psychos resorted to knives, automobiles, and even arson.
        That's simply wrong. “From 1997 through May 2016 (after gun law reforms), no fatal mass shootings occurred in Australia.” Also “people didn’t find other ways to kill or to die by suicide — rates of homicide and suicide fell overall also.”

        https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...hey-do-n597091
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
          As far as how to talk about something truly tragic like this, I'm not sure there is a way. It's like talking to somebody whose parent just died (I know a bit about this)...there's nothing you can say that will "help" in any meaningful sense. Anything I can think of to offer is going to sound lame and/or cheesy, no matter how well-intentioned.

          So, I dunno. Sometimes I think grieving with somebody is all you can really do.
          Originally posted by ke7ejx View Post
          I'm no parent, but I have had my younger classmates (many of them are 10 years younger than I am) come to me with questions about these sort of topics. I found that speaking honestly makes a difference. There are evil people out there who will misuse such a tool for evil means, that 17 year old being one. I also cautioned against giving in to hysteria and to really study both sides of the issue than what the Facebook posts have to say. Even now, they need to be encouraged to research and come to their own conclusions on the subject. It's too easy to give into emotional manipulation.
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Listen. Seriously. There's nothing wrong with saying "I don't have the answers", but I'm interested in what you think. And just listen. Some of them just want to talk.
          Thank you for your thoughts.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            I found this compelling. I offer it for your consideration:
            Demi considers, also thinks we all know already you buy crap arguments, also emotional manipulation.

            Good reminder though! Tremendous!!!
            Last edited by demi-conservative; 02-16-2018, 12:16 AM.
            Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

            Comment


            • For comparison the headlines in my country yesterday were about a disturbed youth who was radicalized online and spent 5 months planning a violent terrorist attack, only to give up on it the moment he started to carry it out:

              [He] planned to ram a car into a group of people in Christchurch and then stab them... but has since told a psychologist when it began he "decided not to hurt anybody because he did not have the means to kill enough people"...

              ..."The reason no-one was hurt was that he did not have access to knives," Lange said. But there was significant premeditation, and hostility towards non-Muslims.


              It has been more than 20 years since we had a mass killing here (4+ people dying in a single homicide incident). We have never had an Islam-motivated terrorist attack.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                We have never had an Islam-motivated terrorist attack.
                You need to open borders wide, racist!!!
                Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                  You need to open borders wide, racist!!!
                  We have one of the highest immigration rates in the OECD, and have ~50% more immigrants than the US per head of population...




                  A quick check of the stats shows that 1.18% of New Zealanders are Muslim as compared to 0.8% of Americans.
                  Last edited by Starlight; 02-16-2018, 01:10 AM.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    We have one of the highest immigration rates in the OECD, and have ~50% more immigrants than the US per head of population...
                    'Close borders!!!' of yours is racist, unprog, dog-whistling! Sad!
                    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                      'Close borders!!!' of yours is racist, unprog, dog-whistling! Sad!
                      Completely open borders is a 'libertarian' idea (not a 'progressive' one) designed to destroy the concept of a state and to facilitated free movement of workers in order to maximize their exploitation by the mega-rich. I would not say that in general there is a particular 'progressive' stance on immigration, other than that most progressives would view it as a moral obligation to accept some refugees.
                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        Completely open borders is a 'libertarian' idea (not a 'progressive' one) designed to destroy the concept of a state and to facilitated free movement of workers in order to maximize their exploitation by the mega-rich. I would not say that in general there is a particular 'progressive' stance on immigration, other than that most progressives would view it as a moral obligation to accept some refugees.
                        More dog-whistling, also justifying racism of yours. Sad!
                        Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                        Comment


                        • In the legend, the Israelites worshiped a golden calf. Now, in the same manner, the American right worship a golden assault rifle. The high priest is the National Rifle Association. And they religiously make sacrifices of school children. And they answer worshipfully, with more guns.
                          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                          “not all there” - you know who you are

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            Completely open borders is a 'libertarian' idea (not a 'progressive' one) designed to destroy the concept of a state and to facilitated free movement of workers in order to maximize their exploitation by the mega-rich.
                            A point lost on today's generation. The conservatives who actually remember the seventies and eighties seem to have forgotten this, that some conservatives have made a case for immigration.

                            I would not say that in general there is a particular 'progressive' stance on immigration, other than that most progressives would view it as a moral obligation to accept some refugees.
                            And many Christians have noted the moral questions involved with refugees. The interwar period after WWI saw a major and unprecedented movement of peoples, with the disruptions of war and the redrawing of the maps. Every European nation was affected by migration of refugees. And the Christian churches played a major role, Herbert Hoover came to fame of his handling of relief efforts.

                            Just had to insert that here, not to divert the thread, but to emphasize the faith does lay a role. We too often only use the left/right dichotomy to categorize things.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                              Do we now for a fact that he was in a mental health database?
                              I understand that the legislation that required mental health data to be made available for firearm background checks was repealed.

                              Even if he was in a mental health database, that would not have prevented him purchasing weapons.

                              Edited to add: reference
                              Last edited by Roy; 02-16-2018, 05:17 AM.
                              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ke7ejx View Post
                                First of all, you don't a thing about me to make such dishonest conclusions. I believe in stronger background checks and waiting periods. I also believe in protecting victims of domestic violence. If you had done any real research you would know that a majority of mass shootings start with the theft of the gun in question.
                                [citation needed.]

                                Here's a source that states you are completely wrong
                                Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-shooting/more-80-percent-guns-used-mass-shootings-obtained-legally-n474441

                                Eighty-two percent of weapons involved in mass shootings over the last three decades have been bought legally, according to a database compiled by Mother Jones magazine that defines a mass shooting as taking the lives of at least four people in a public place.

                                © Copyright Original Source

                                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                                Comment

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