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Florida School Shooting

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
    I have supported the idea of mandatory extreme prison sentences for any use or possession of a gun during a crime. The reason prison is no deterrent is that sentences are too short and prison is not unpleasant enough.
    We need our own Devil's island...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
      which was ignored. guacamole until the gun grabbers in the government start enforcing the guns laws already in place they need to shut up about creating more. There are laws that would have stopped this. We have a system in place for back ground checks if it isn't used properly it own't work that is what they found out from the Texas church shooting. enforce what is already there then we can talk about whether we need more and not until then.
      I honestly think we can do both. We can have more effective law enforcement and decrease the gun supply in the general population. I'm skeptical that the laws could have prevented anything here--he bought the gun legally, meaning that he passed a background check unless he went to a state that doesn't require background checks for all purchases. The only thing that might have stopped him would have been if the authorities would be able to confiscate the weapon, but as soon as you talk about confiscating a legally purchased firearm, people go crazy with their slippery slope. 1 school shooting on average every three days -- this is the bloody price we pay so that we can have guns.

      fwiw,
      guacamole
      "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
      Hear my cry, hear my shout,
      Save me, save me"

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        We need our own Devil's island...
        Australia!
        "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
        Hear my cry, hear my shout,
        Save me, save me"

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by guacamole View Post
          I honestly think we can do both. We can have more effective law enforcement and decrease the gun supply in the general population. I'm skeptical that the laws could have prevented anything here--he bought the gun legally, meaning that he passed a background check unless he went to a state that doesn't require background checks for all purchases. The only thing that might have stopped him would have been if the authorities would be able to confiscate the weapon, but as soon as you talk about confiscating a legally purchased firearm, people go crazy with their slippery slope. 1 school shooting on average every three days -- this is the bloody price we pay so that we can have guns.

          fwiw,
          guacamole
          it is when they talk about taking guns away WITHOUT DUE PROCESS that folks get upset at Guac,which is what is being talked about. not if there is proof that the person should not own a gun and due process was used to get it.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
            it is when they talk about taking guns away WITHOUT DUE PROCESS that folks get upset at Guac,which is what is being talked about. not if there is proof that the person should not own a gun and due process was used to get it.
            But you still need to follow due process to take the gun away, even if the person is cuckoo for cocoa puffs. If the police confiscate a weapon as an emergency measure, then people can still get their property back.
            "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
            Hear my cry, hear my shout,
            Save me, save me"

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by guacamole View Post
              1 school shooting on average every three days -- this is the bloody price we pay so that we can have guns.
              A lot of kids being sacrificed on the altar of the 2nd amendment...

              I can certainly tell you that people across the rest of the Western world see these constant headlines about mass (often school) shootings in the US and shake their heads in disgust and wonder what is wrong with Americans for having insane laws. It's just not something that happens in the rest of the Western world because people don't have ready access to guns, especially automatics. So whenever there's a headline article about a mass school shooting it's generally a >95% chance that it will have happened in the US. And then it's depressing to see Americans pretending that shootings are inevitable and there's nothing anyone could possibly do to prevent them.

              The sad thing is that over 90% of Americans, including the majority of NRA members and gun owners, say they support at least somewhat tighter gun laws that include things like compulsory background checks on all gun purchases. But the Republican party is so corrupt and bought-off by the gun manufacturers that they simply refuse to pass legislation that >90% of the country agrees with.
              Last edited by Starlight; 02-15-2018, 01:38 PM.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                But you still need to follow due process to take the gun away, even if the person is cuckoo for cocoa puffs. If the police confiscate a weapon as an emergency measure, then people can still get their property back.
                what we get upset with is when somone accuses you of being mentally ill or a criminal with no proof we can take you gun away. The no fly list ring a bell(folks were put on it with no proof at all i.e. Senator Ted Kennedy ). and Obama wanted to use to grab guns.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                  Australia!
                  Isn't that already England's penal colony?
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                    what we get upset with is when somone accuses you of being mentally ill or a criminal with no proof we can take you gun away. The no fly list ring a bell(folks were put on it with no proof at all i.e. Senator Ted Kennedy ). and Obama wanted to use to grab guns.
                    I understand. So this wasn't a failure of law enforcement then. There is no law dictating that posting on social media is grounds for gun confiscation. There is no law that says that if you are expelled from school for behavior problems that you cannot own a gun. We claim that this kid is troubled and he probably was, but what is the mechanism that triggers the confiscation here? A sworn statement from a mental health professional? Do we now for a fact that he was in a mental health database?

                    fwiw,
                    guacamole
                    "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
                    Hear my cry, hear my shout,
                    Save me, save me"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Isn't that already England's penal colony?
                      It's just where they keep their drunks, as evidenced by the slurred speech and keeping dangerous animals as pets.
                      "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
                      Hear my cry, hear my shout,
                      Save me, save me"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                        It's just where they keep their drunks, as evidenced by the slurred speech and keeping dangerous animals as pets.
                        That explains Tass, I thought he was posting drunk...
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • It's 40 miles from my main campus, and all the kids are talking about today. I have no idea what to do, and this ...

                          In my inbox this morning:
                          Possible Student Responses to Tragedy
                          Short Term Effect of a Crisis
                          Shock, numbness, disorientation
                          Fight of Flight response: adrenalin pumps, heart races, hyper-ventilation
                          Exhaustion: when fight or flight can no longer be prolonged
                          Coinciding Emotional Response
                          Shock: disbelief, denial
                          Cataclysm of emotions: anger/rage, fear/terror, grief/sorrow, confusion/self-doubt
                          Reconstruction of emotional equilibrium

                          Coinciding Behavior Response
                          Flight, Avoidance be creating distractions, Giggling, Immobilization

                          Long Term Behavior Effect
                          Similar but milder reaction to trigger event
                          Grief (all stages) due to loss
                          Flashbacks sometimes associated with guilt
                          Recurrent dreams and fear of sleeping
                          Repetitive play with themes of trauma
                          Avoidance of reminders
                          Amnesia
                          Loss of recently acquired skills
                          Diminished interest
                          Numbed feelings
                          Sense of foreshortened future
                          Outbursts of anger
                          Concentration impairment
                          Hyperventilation
                          Reactions at time of anniversary of event

                          Faculty Responses in the Classroom
                          Good time to review campus policies and procedures, safe places and emergency exits.
                          Think of ways to introduce and close the session
                          Some ideas to establish boundaries for discussion in the classroom:
                          Ask students to create the norms for discussion. Some examples may be:
                          Avoiding blame and speculation
                          Avoiding inflammatory language
                          Respect each other’s views, just listen
                          Share personal stories-with limitations, encourage writing before speaking
                          Express emotions – with limitations, encourage writing before speaking
                          Be prepared for emotional responses by listening and having campuses student resources (Campus Counseling) available to them.
                          Some ideas for conversations may include future positive actions individuals could take from this such as supporting the victims through giving blood, collecting needed resources, etc.
                          Allow everyone to participate but do not force it.
                          Explore possible links to your own discipline focusing on academic approaches to solutions
                          Do not feel like you must lead a discussion if you are uncomfortable doing so, just give a simple statement to the class to acknowledge the situation and continue to scheduled class work. Be prepared to support students who may not be able to concentrate or who are emotional during class.

                          Taking Care of Yourself and Suggestions for Others
                          Practice slow and deep breathing and mindfulness
                          Stretching or yoga
                          Healthy eating
                          Get enough rest/sleep
                          Time to reflect, but not withdraw-support groups are good source of support
                          Be direct about what you need from others
                          Productive actions that help others such as volunteering
                          Take a break from the news
                          Honor your feelings and give yourself a break
                          Practice whatever is within your belief system for bringing balance and peace into your life. Grief is a long process. Give yourself and others time to experience feelings and to recover. Persevere, know when to get help if you are stuck, and trust your ability to get through the challenging days ahead.

                          ... doesn't help.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                            It's 40 miles from my main campus, and all the kids are talking about today. I have no idea what to do, and this ...

                            In my inbox this morning:
                            Possible Student Responses to Tragedy
                            Short Term Effect of a Crisis
                            Shock, numbness, disorientation
                            Fight of Flight response: adrenalin pumps, heart races, hyper-ventilation
                            Exhaustion: when fight or flight can no longer be prolonged
                            Coinciding Emotional Response
                            Shock: disbelief, denial
                            Cataclysm of emotions: anger/rage, fear/terror, grief/sorrow, confusion/self-doubt
                            Reconstruction of emotional equilibrium

                            Coinciding Behavior Response
                            Flight, Avoidance be creating distractions, Giggling, Immobilization

                            Long Term Behavior Effect
                            Similar but milder reaction to trigger event
                            Grief (all stages) due to loss
                            Flashbacks sometimes associated with guilt
                            Recurrent dreams and fear of sleeping
                            Repetitive play with themes of trauma
                            Avoidance of reminders
                            Amnesia
                            Loss of recently acquired skills
                            Diminished interest
                            Numbed feelings
                            Sense of foreshortened future
                            Outbursts of anger
                            Concentration impairment
                            Hyperventilation
                            Reactions at time of anniversary of event

                            Faculty Responses in the Classroom
                            Good time to review campus policies and procedures, safe places and emergency exits.
                            Think of ways to introduce and close the session
                            Some ideas to establish boundaries for discussion in the classroom:
                            Ask students to create the norms for discussion. Some examples may be:
                            Avoiding blame and speculation
                            Avoiding inflammatory language
                            Respect each other’s views, just listen
                            Share personal stories-with limitations, encourage writing before speaking
                            Express emotions – with limitations, encourage writing before speaking
                            Be prepared for emotional responses by listening and having campuses student resources (Campus Counseling) available to them.
                            Some ideas for conversations may include future positive actions individuals could take from this such as supporting the victims through giving blood, collecting needed resources, etc.
                            Allow everyone to participate but do not force it.
                            Explore possible links to your own discipline focusing on academic approaches to solutions
                            Do not feel like you must lead a discussion if you are uncomfortable doing so, just give a simple statement to the class to acknowledge the situation and continue to scheduled class work. Be prepared to support students who may not be able to concentrate or who are emotional during class.

                            Taking Care of Yourself and Suggestions for Others
                            Practice slow and deep breathing and mindfulness
                            Stretching or yoga
                            Healthy eating
                            Get enough rest/sleep
                            Time to reflect, but not withdraw-support groups are good source of support
                            Be direct about what you need from others
                            Productive actions that help others such as volunteering
                            Take a break from the news
                            Honor your feelings and give yourself a break
                            Practice whatever is within your belief system for bringing balance and peace into your life. Grief is a long process. Give yourself and others time to experience feelings and to recover. Persevere, know when to get help if you are stuck, and trust your ability to get through the challenging days ahead.

                            ... doesn't help.
                            So sorry about what happened in your community. Are they going to cancel classes for a while?
                            "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
                            Hear my cry, hear my shout,
                            Save me, save me"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                              I understand. So this wasn't a failure of law enforcement then. There is no law dictating that posting on social media is grounds for gun confiscation. There is no law that says that if you are expelled from school for behavior problems that you cannot own a gun. We claim that this kid is troubled and he probably was, but what is the mechanism that triggers the confiscation here? A sworn statement from a mental health professional? Do we now for a fact that he was in a mental health database?

                              fwiw,
                              guacamole
                              I guess we need the police from Minority Report. That'll fix em.

                              Some things can't be fixed Guac. Although if the FBI had investigated the report they had on him, they might have been able to prevent it. Or if someone did send him to a therapist or had him committed.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                                whenever there's a headline article about a mass school shooting it's generally a >95% chance that it will have happened in the US. And then it's depressing to see Americans pretending that shootings are inevitable and there's nothing anyone could possibly do to prevent them.
                                See for example:

                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                Some things can't be fixed Guac.
                                America, the only Western country with this problem on this scale, can't possibly do anything to fix it. There are no solutions anywhere else in the Western world. That's why it happens in America and not other Western countries.
                                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                                Comment

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