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Florida School Shooting

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  • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
    It's 40 miles from my main campus, and all the kids are talking about today. I have no idea what to do
    Perhaps have the class talk about the laws in other Western countries that don't have those shootings? I imagine they all have cellphones with internet access - so assign them each a Western country to research the gun and health laws in and the mass shootings in, and give them 15 minutes to research that, and then have them each give a 1 minute speech to the class reporting on what the country they researched does/doesn't do differently to the US and how that affects the number of mass shootings there?

    Perhaps then discuss whether the students think lack of ready access to firearms, government-funded mental health services etc make a difference? Perhaps then discuss whether the students think the Republican lawmaker's refusal to pass any form of gun legislation in the US despite 90%+ support for universal background checks due to their receiving donations from the gun industry, indicates a corrupt political system and a deeply corrupt Republican party? Perhaps go through a list of Senators and see how much blood money each one took from the NRA. Write their names on the board along with the amounts, so the kids know who killed those kids, and how much those lives were worth in dollars to those people. Also, perhaps, get them to research the gun manufacturers who are making the guns and making these donations. Write the CEOs' names on the board in big letters, let them know who their murderers are.

    Honestly if by silence you hide from the children how much the US Conservatives are facilitating their murders, you're doing them a disservice.
    Last edited by Starlight; 02-15-2018, 03:57 PM.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
      It's 40 miles from my main campus, and all the kids are talking about today. I have no idea what to do, and this ....
      I think that's one of the tragic things -- the "kids" get lost in the gun debate at a time when they need help the most.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        Perhaps have the class talk about the laws in other Western countries that don't have those shootings?...
        What a jackass thing to say. That makes the victims less dead? Or makes them feel more safe? Or... what? The "laws in other Western countries" have absolutely no impact on their immediate situation. I think you're truly one sick individual.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          The pro-gun anti-regulation US conservatives are morally responsible for these murders it's that simple.
          Please, Starlight. I would appreciate it if you could provide photo or video of my pulling the trigger to cause the death of another. Please show me how I, a respectable conservative and legal gun owner has murdered when I've never had to use the gun I purchased legally to protect myself from prowlers. Otherwise, I may be forced to question the integrity of your argument.
          I am Punkinhead.

          "I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"

          ~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Or... what?
            It empowers them to think the situation can be changed. It's a known psychological finding that people who are stuck in a terrible situation with no feeling of any ability to change it can get really depressed and feel really terrible and dis-empowered. But if they have the belief that something can be done to change it, and see themselves as an active agent who can in future take steps to alter the world around them (e.g. in this case aspire to become involved in US politics and improve things, or decide to move to a safer country etc), then it has much better psychological outcomes.

            I think you're truly one sick individual.
            I think that of you. The difference is, I'm right about it and you're not.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              It empowers them to think the situation can be changed. It's a known psychological finding that people who are stuck in a terrible situation with no feeling of any ability to change it can get really depressed and feel really terrible and dis-empowered.
              So, somehow, lying to them, or presenting a false hope is preferable in your sick world?

              But if they have the belief that something can be done to change it, and see themselves as an active agent who can in future take steps to alter the world around them (e.g. in this case aspire to become involved in US politics and improve things, or decide to move to a safer country etc), then it has much better psychological outcomes.
              What you propose as a solution is downright asinine.

              I think that of you. The difference is, I'm right about it and you're not.
              Yeah, one would expect a depraved and deranged individual to say that.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ke7ejx View Post
                Please, Starlight. I would appreciate it if you could provide photo or video of my pulling the trigger to cause the death of another. Please show me how I, a respectable conservative and legal gun owner has murdered when I've never had to use the gun I purchased legally to protect myself from prowlers. Otherwise, I may be forced to question the integrity of your argument.
                US conservatives have worked hard across the US to promote and propagate a gun culture and been against gun legislation and government provision of mental health support. The results are frequent mass slaughters in the US to an extent not found in the entire rest of the Western world combined. US Conservatives bear the moral responsibility for the effects of the laws they have supported and the culture they have created. To the extent to which you had a part in doing those things, to that extent you are morally responsible for those murders. If you are/pretend to be too stupid to understand that, it does not surprise me, as you seem to like to troll when you engage with me (e.g. your trolling request for video footage of you pulling the trigger, pretending to not understand how moral responsibility works - although it wouldn't surprise me if you just actually have zero clue when it comes to morality issues and moral responsibility and are genuinely completely ignorant - it's hard to tell from your posting how much of it is trolling versus genuine lack of morals and ignorance).
                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  US conservatives have worked hard across the US to promote and propagate a gun culture and been against gun legislation and government provision of mental health support. The results are frequent mass slaughters in the US to an extent not found in the entire rest of the Western world combined. US Conservatives bear the moral responsibility for the effects of the laws they have supported and the culture they have created. To the extent to which you had a part in doing those things, to that extent you are morally responsible for those murders. If you are/pretend to be too stupid to understand that, it does not surprise me, as you seem to like to troll when you engage with me (e.g. your trolling request for video footage of you pulling the trigger, pretending to not understand how moral responsibility works - although it wouldn't surprise me if you just actually have zero clue when it comes to morality issues and moral responsibility and are genuinely completely ignorant - it's hard to tell from your posting how much of it is trolling versus genuine lack of morals and ignorance).
                  And, again, this moral condemnation from the goofus who believes it's OK to kill small children.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    So, somehow, lying to them, or presenting a false hope is preferable in your sick world?

                    What you propose as a solution is downright asinine.
                    It's asinine or presenting false hope to inform them that there are countries in the world where that sort of thing doesn't occur, and that they could suggest their parents move the family there, or that they themselves can move there when they grow up? Or it's somehow lying to them to suggest that laws in the US could ever be changed?

                    How dare they be taught about the world and reality! They should only be taught that mass slaughters are inevitable, and they should learn to accept them! #ConservativePropaganda

                    I was amused to see this post in the New Zealand reddit forum today:
                    How happy are you guys that you don't live in the USA?:
                    No school shootings, free health care, NZ ain't too bad :D
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      US conservatives have worked hard across the US to promote and propagate a gun culture and been against gun legislation and government provision of mental health support. The results are frequent mass slaughters in the US to an extent not found in the entire rest of the Western world combined. US Conservatives bear the moral responsibility for the effects of the laws they have supported and the culture they have created. To the extent to which you had a part in doing those things, to that extent you are morally responsible for those murders. If you are/pretend to be too stupid to understand that, it does not surprise me, as you seem to like to troll when you engage with me (e.g. your trolling request for video footage of you pulling the trigger, pretending to not understand how moral responsibility works - although it wouldn't surprise me if you just actually have zero clue when it comes to morality issues and moral responsibility and are genuinely completely ignorant - it's hard to tell from your posting how much of it is trolling versus genuine lack of morals and ignorance).
                      First of all, you don't a thing about me to make such dishonest conclusions. I believe in stronger background checks and waiting periods. I also believe in protecting victims of domestic violence. If you had done any real research you would know that a majority of mass shootings start with the theft of the gun in question. But, I suppose you're not interested in any evidence unless it supports your ignorant conclusions for a country you have displayed laughable ignorance for time and time again. As for trolling, I was not trolling, I was reminding you that you have the burden to prove your arguments as you said all conservatives. I do have a moral code and anyone who has made the effort to get to know me knows that very well. If you wish to troll, I suggest your find a way to make sure your trolling is less pathetic.
                      I am Punkinhead.

                      "I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"

                      ~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        It's asinine or presenting false hope to inform them that there are countries in the world where that sort of thing doesn't occur, and that they could suggest their parents move the family there, or that they themselves can move there when they grow up? Or it's somehow lying to them to suggest that laws in the US could ever be changed?
                        Wow -- so your "solution" is "flee"?

                        How dare they be taught about the world and reality! They should only be taught that mass slaughters are inevitable, and they should learn to accept them!
                        And, here is more asinine crap... that's NOT the only other option.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          And, again, this moral condemnation from the goofus who believes it's OK to kill small children.
                          You anti-abortionists are crazy.

                          Gun violence is very different to abortion issues, because with regard to abortion one side believes the objects being killed aren't really "people" in the full sense and are OK with it happening. Whereas in the case of mass slaughters, both sides agree that the schools kids or adults being slaughtered are indeed people who shouldn't be killed and whom killing is not okay.

                          I'm quite happy to own the moral responsibility of the fetuses killed by the abortion laws I support - it's a policy that I support and it has consequences and so through my support I'm partially responsible for those consequences. I'm okay with it because I don't think the killing of fetuses is deeply immoral, and therefore am fine with accepting and acknowledging my sliver of responsibility for an act that I'm not committing myself but am willfully enabling others to commit. But for some reason you cowards run from the moral responsibility of the people killed by the laws and culture that you willfully enact and propagate and support. Unlike me and abortion, you don't generally think it's okay when people are slaughtered by guns (unless it's police or military doing the slaughtering, and then you usually seem to be fine with it!!!), and your response is to refuse to acknowledge your own moral culpability and responsibility for supporting and enabling the culture and laws that led to those murders. It's pathetic. You're not merely murderers for your role in supporting the laws and culture that repeatedly enable these acts, you're cowards who run from your own moral responsibility.
                          Last edited by Starlight; 02-15-2018, 04:49 PM.
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            You anti-abortionists are crazy.
                            And there you have it. I don't want babies murdered, Starlight thinks it's OK -- and I'm the crazy one.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                              So sorry about what happened in your community. Are they going to cancel classes for a while?
                              Thanks, and no, but we'll have counselors on campus, tomorrow. This morning's email, which I've now received three times, doesn't do much for my confidence.

                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              I think that's one of the tragic things -- the "kids" get lost in the gun debate at a time when they need help the most.
                              Part of why I posted was to say that for those of us close to this, it's not the time to talk about gun control. And for me, personally, I don't even know how to talk about this with my kids.

                              I'm open to suggestions.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                                Thanks, and no, but we'll have counselors on campus, tomorrow. This morning's email, which I've now received three times, doesn't do much for my confidence.



                                Part of why I posted was to say that for those of us close to this, it's not the time to talk about gun control. And for me, personally, I don't even know how to talk about this with my kids.

                                I'm open to suggestions.
                                As far as how to talk about something truly tragic like this, I'm not sure there is a way. It's like talking to somebody whose parent just died (I know a bit about this)...there's nothing you can say that will "help" in any meaningful sense. Anything I can think of to offer is going to sound lame and/or cheesy, no matter how well-intentioned.

                                So, I dunno. Sometimes I think grieving with somebody is all you can really do.
                                I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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