Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Florida School Shooting

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    But taking guns away from everyone is a valid solution?
    Where did I ever say anything remotely to that effect?
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
      I think it's possible, likely even, that the number of gun users hasn't risen so much as the number of guns that each individual has acquired. So, what we're seeing is owners who used to own one or two guns now owning three, four, or more. My gun owning co-workers all own more than one, and my boss's son (who also works here) actually owns a literal arsenal of several dozen (mostly AR-15s in different configurations). I think that matters to statistics like these. We have more guns, but the number of gun owners likely hasn't risen very high.
      I'd like to see something substantiating this - I don't doubt that gun owners bought "more guns", in light of the various threats of banning guns, etc, but I'd suspect a good percentage of gun sales were to new owners. Again, in the light of various threats of gun banning, I know quite a few people who purchased their first handgun "just in case".

      An interesting phenomenon (and I'm looking for the study) is that a record number of women bought handguns in the past 5 years.

      ETA: A quick Google search seems to confirm your theory, with repeat sales being high, but it seems to depend on the "study" and who's funding it.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        America, the only Western country with this problem on this scale, can't possibly do anything to fix it. There are no solutions anywhere else in the Western world. That's why it happens in America and not other Western countries.
        It does happen in other countries Starlight. Entire villages being destroyed in Africa and the Middle East using guns and poison gas. People being run down in the streets in France. Suicide bombings in Israel.
        Were the words "Western" and "on this scale" obscured by the Tippex on your monitor?
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Actually there has been a huge increase in the number of actual new gun buyers, with the biggest jump seen among women. Firearm training courses are jammed to capacity forcing those that offer them to increase the number of classes to accommodate these folks. While there are those who stockpile firearms IIRC the actual number of guns per person is something like 1½ meaning the vast majority only have a single gun.
          Hm. Ok.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            I'd like to see something substantiating this - I don't doubt that gun owners bought "more guns", in light of the various threats of banning guns, etc, but I'd suspect a good percentage of gun sales were to new owners. Again, in the light of various threats of gun banning, I know quite a few people who purchased their first handgun "just in case".

            An interesting phenomenon (and I'm looking for the study) is that a record number of women bought handguns in the past 5 years.

            ETA: A quick Google search seems to confirm your theory, with repeat sales being high, but it seems to depend on the "study" and who's funding it.
            Hm. Interesting.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Actually there has been a huge increase in the number of actual new gun buyers, with the biggest jump seen among women. Firearm training courses are jammed to capacity forcing those that offer them to increase the number of classes to accommodate these folks. While there are those who stockpile firearms IIRC the actual number of guns per person is something like 1½ meaning the vast majority only have a single gun.
              And each wave of "gun banning talks" has the totally unintended consequence of fueling the very thing it hopes to stall. Which is why, of course, we have posters like....

              09cc1899b844159a6c6c227f6156099d--good-job-patriot.jpg
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                Were the words "Western" and "on this scale" obscured by the Tippex on your monitor?
                (had to look up "Tippex" -- assuming that's our "white-out"?)
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  Where did I ever say anything remotely to that effect?
                  I didn't mean you personally. But that seems to be the prevalent sentiment going around after any shooting. "We have to do something! And that something is take away everyone's guns!"

                  I think going after the actual problem: The people who do this sort of thing, is a better solution. The people who do mass shootings are often very disturbed individuals. These should not have access to any sort of dangerous weapons.

                  Maybe there should be a psych evaluation in addition to a background check?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                    Were the words "Western" and "on this scale" obscured by the Tippex on your monitor?

                    Has your nitpicking gone awry?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      I'd like to see something substantiating this - I don't doubt that gun owners bought "more guns", in light of the various threats of banning guns, etc, but I'd suspect a good percentage of gun sales were to new owners. Again, in the light of various threats of gun banning, I know quite a few people who purchased their first handgun "just in case".

                      An interesting phenomenon (and I'm looking for the study) is that a record number of women bought handguns in the past 5 years.

                      ETA: A quick Google search seems to confirm your theory, with repeat sales being high, but it seems to depend on the "study" and who's funding it.
                      In a 2013 (IIRC) study commissioned by the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) they found that first-time sales have increased by 20% since Obama became president and nearly a quarter of first-time buyers turned around and bought at least one more firearm within the first year after their first purchase.

                      As Mike Bazinet, Director of Public Affairs at the NSSF noted, "A lot of people have said that fewer people are buying more guns. That’s certainly not the experience our retailers are reporting or what we see in the NICS checks."

                      For instance there was a 20% increase among first-time buyers just between 2010 and 2012 and in the St. Louis region after the death of Michael Brown gun stores were reporting that up to 75% of their customers have been first-time gun owners.

                      And even the not very 2A friendly Huffington Post recognized the increase among first-time buyers although they failed to cite any numbers

                      Source: Gun Makers Aiming For Record Sales As More First-Time Buyers Race To Stock Up Ahead Of New Rules


                      Feb 25 (Reuters) - U.S. gun makers are aiming for record quarterly sales as first-time buyers, including a growing number of women and pensioners, rush to buy weapons before anticipated gun-control laws come into force.

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      It was one segment that was doing very well during an otherwise anemic economy

                      The fastest growing group of new gun buyers are women (up from 13% in 2005 to near 25% today) who are buying them primarily for home and personal defense although there has been a dramatic increase in women's participation in both hunting and target shooting as well.

                      There has also been a sharp increase in participation in classes designed to teach first time gun owners proper safety and use of their new firearms. A lot of gun stores have started up programs that offer instructions to first-time gun owners because they have noticed the influx and many have found it necessary to increase the number of classes they offer as customers fill them to capacity. Many gun stores and shooting ranges are offering such classes for the first time to meet demand. The NSSF reported that classes around the country for first-time gun owners are up by two-thirds.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        (had to look up "Tippex" -- assuming that's our "white-out"?)
                        Correct, sir.
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          You anti-abortionists are crazy.

                          Gun violence is very different to abortion issues, because with regard to abortion one side believes the objects being killed aren't really "people" in the full sense and are OK with it happening. Whereas in the case of mass slaughters, both sides agree that the schools kids or adults being slaughtered are indeed people who shouldn't be killed and whom killing is not okay.

                          I'm quite happy to own the moral responsibility of the fetuses killed by the abortion laws I support - it's a policy that I support and it has consequences and so through my support I'm partially responsible for those consequences. I'm okay with it because I don't think the killing of fetuses is deeply immoral, and therefore am fine with accepting and acknowledging my sliver of responsibility for an act that I'm not committing myself but am willfully enabling others to commit. But for some reason you cowards run from the moral responsibility of the people killed by the laws and culture that you willfully enact and propagate and support. Unlike me and abortion, you don't generally think it's okay when people are slaughtered by guns (unless it's police or military doing the slaughtering, and then you usually seem to be fine with it!!!), and your response is to refuse to acknowledge your own moral culpability and responsibility for supporting and enabling the culture and laws that led to those murders. It's pathetic. You're not merely murderers for your role in supporting the laws and culture that repeatedly enable these acts, you're cowards who run from your own moral responsibility.
                          so toddlers are not people to you? Your moral compass is in need of some major repair work.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                            so toddlers are not people to you? Your moral compass is in need of some major repair work.
                            Gotta wonder how starlight would respond to a mass shooting of infants. Would his desire to ban firearms win out over his dismissing their deaths as not counting because they're not really people yet?

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
                              You anti-abortionists are crazy.

                              Gun violence is very different to abortion issues, because with regard to abortion one side believes the objects being killed aren't really "people" in the full sense and are OK with it happening. Whereas in the case of mass slaughters, both sides agree that the schools kids or adults being slaughtered are indeed people who shouldn't be killed and whom killing is not okay.

                              I'm quite happy to own the moral responsibility of the fetuses killed by the abortion laws I support - it's a policy that I support and it has consequences and so through my support I'm partially responsible for those consequences. I'm okay with it because I don't think the killing of fetuses is deeply immoral, and therefore am fine with accepting and acknowledging my sliver of responsibility for an act that I'm not committing myself but am willfully enabling others to commit. But for some reason you cowards run from the moral responsibility of the people killed by the laws and culture that you willfully enact and propagate and support. Unlike me and abortion, you don't generally think it's okay when people are slaughtered by guns (unless it's police or military doing the slaughtering, and then you usually seem to be fine with it!!!), and your response is to refuse to acknowledge your own moral culpability and responsibility for supporting and enabling the culture and laws that led to those murders. It's pathetic. You're not merely murderers for your role in supporting the laws and culture that repeatedly enable these acts, you're cowards who run from your own moral responsibility.
                              You directly support murder, and it is no credit to you that you're willing to share part of the blame.

                              We support the legal ownership and responsible use of firearms. We bear no share of the blame if someone chooses to break the law.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                I didn't mean you personally. But that seems to be the prevalent sentiment going around after any shooting. "We have to do something! And that something is take away everyone's guns!"
                                Yeah, that's pretty much my sentiment. I think it's only a matter of time really. I don't desire to see this, but I think eventually a tragedy will come along that will be so catastrophic, or the number of mass shootings will increase so dramatically, and/or leadership will change hands so thoroughly that eventually it'll seem like the only sensible option on the table. there will be lots of weeping and gnashing of teeth, and people will complain for a very long time that the buy back didn't work, but the numbers will eventually reflect it, and life will go on. Or at least, that's my hope.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                162 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                400 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                114 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                198 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                379 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X