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Florida School Shooting

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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I thought some more about this while dealing with a 28 year old man who can't seem to get his life together, and has managed to violate the terms of his probation, and sat there crying like a baby when he was told he's about a hair's breadth away from revocation.

    It reminded me of my cop days, and the number of times I arrested an 18 or 19 year old thug for armed robbery or rape, had to physically fight with them, once getting stabbed requiring 16 stitches in my leg near my groin..... and these gangsta thugs would show up in court all cleaned up, gentleman's haircut, suit and tie, and acting as polite as could be while their public defender portrayed them as "just a child, a victim of the system...." crap.

    So, yeah, I admit my prejudice.
    And a mother telling everyone how he's a good boy who would NEVER do anything bad.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      I used to collect collectable trading cards (Magic the Gathering mostly).
      Got any trades?
      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
        I've already linked to that page in this thread, and referred TheWall in a subsequent post to the link, and he then responded in a way that suggested he'd read it.


        Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
        Starlight shows, yet again, that he lived in a thick bubble that is miles from actual reality? The more likely answer is the kid simply didn’t want to carry out his attack and found an excuse not to and people are latching onto this story without engaging their brain.
        So your theory is the government prosecutor was lying to the court? (Linked article was quoting his words in court) And I'm the one supposedly in a 'thick bubble that is miles from actual reality' for failing to disbelieve the truth of what the prosecutor told the court and instead make up my own set of pop-psychology facts about why the kid "really" did what he did, the way you do?


        Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
        western countries are ruled by self loathing white liberals
        Speaking as a white liberal, I can't say that I'm at all convinced that there exist any self loathing white liberals. I have never seen or met one. Jaecp claimed to me that he thinks white liberal guilt is sometimes a thing, so maybe it's sometimes a thing in the US? If any exist, they would seem to be very few and far between, so I don't think it's at all reasonable to be trying to use them as an explanatory mechanism for anything.

        White privilege doesn't refer to the natural advantage of being a majority
        I think that is actually a reasonably good definition of it. In any society there tend to be both subtle and overt advantages in being members of a majority/powerful group. That is a pretty well-documented sociological finding across all sorts of societies and social groupings. 'White privilege' is the tag given to refer to how those effects play out in Western societies with regard to skin-color.

        Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
        How much money out of the education budget needs to be redirected to fight a civil war because someone decided it would be a great idea to try and trick a people into disarming themselves so that they are completely at the mercy of the predator doing the disarming?
        There seems to be a lot wrong with that question...

        1. You imply that an unarmed populace would have more civil wars than an armed populace. That seems backward. With a heavily armed populace, the people would often be thinking about rising up against the government, and you'd be more likely to have a civil war. (Need I point out that the heavily-armed US has had a civil war, whereas here in unarmed NZ we haven't?)

        2. How is people in a democratic society wanting to have no guns around, and getting politicians to enact that, "trick[ing] people into disarming themselves" putting them "at the mercy of the predator"? What predator? Are you thinking of some Stalin-like dictator who is stripping the people of guns? But then that's not a democratic society, and he's not tricking them. My country has had strong gun control laws for decades... it hasn't been at the mercy of any predators lately - actually I see today it got named (yet again) the least corrupt country in the world. Here our politicians actually do the will of the voters. I've got no gun... where are these predators coming to steal my freedom?

        3. It strikes me as a very crazy notion that people would be able to fight off their own government with guns. You realize the US govt has nukes, drones, bombers, aircraft carriers etc, right? Even if every single gun-toting crazy in Texas stood together against the US govt, the US military could roll right over them if it really wanted. For this reason, what generally matters in revolutions is not how well the people are armed, it is the willingness or lack thereof of the military forces to attack their own people if commanded to. That is usually achieved better through non-violent protest, because the military personal tend to feel bad about their actions pretty fast if they are gunning down peaceful protesters, whereas they tend to feel like they are validly defending themselves if they are being attacked by people with serious weaponry... so if a civil war is won by getting the government military forces to side with the people over the government then a lack of weaponry on the part of the people is actually more helpful.
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • Conservative Treehouse has an interesting analysis: Apparently Nikolas Cruz and Trayvon Martin have a lot in common in that both were the victims of idiotic progressive social policies that treat dangerous criminal behavior as if it is merely a minor disciplinary problem for the school to deal with. With the cooperation of local police, the school system has been able to shield students from being arrested or otherwise held accountable for crimes ranging from theft to drug possession to assault.

          By all accounts, Cruz should have been sitting in a jail cell long before now instead of walking free with access to guns and the ability to enter a school and start shooting.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Conservative Treehouse has an interesting analysis: Apparently Nikolas Cruz and Trayvon Martin have a lot in common in that both were the victims of idiotic progressive social policies that treat dangerous criminal behavior as if it is merely a minor disciplinary problem for the school to deal with. With the cooperation of local police, the school system has been able to shield students from being arrested or otherwise held accountable for crimes ranging from theft to drug possession to assault.

            By all accounts, Cruz should have been sitting in a jail cell long before now instead of walking free with access to guns and the ability to enter a school and start shooting.
            Come on, MM, the boy is only a child!
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • The most troubling question, I think, is how many other Nickolas Cruz's and Travyon Martin's are out there right now being coddled by progressivism and ready to snap at any moment?
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                Broward Deputies to Carry Rifles on School Grounds: Sheriff



                https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...474763143.html
                Yeah - I saw that. Sad actually, but not a surprise. When we have a major trauma like this one, there is usually (at least for a time) a significant response. I feel for the people at that school.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  I thought some more about this while dealing with a 28 year old man who can't seem to get his life together, and has managed to violate the terms of his probation, and sat there crying like a baby when he was told he's about a hair's breadth away from revocation.

                  It reminded me of my cop days, and the number of times I arrested an 18 or 19 year old thug for armed robbery or rape, had to physically fight with them, once getting stabbed requiring 16 stitches in my leg near my groin..... and these gangsta thugs would show up in court all cleaned up, gentleman's haircut, suit and tie, and acting as polite as could be while their public defender portrayed them as "just a child, a victim of the system...." crap.

                  So, yeah, I admit my prejudice.
                  Given your experience, your prejudice is understandable. Like this young man/child, however, that doesn't make it excusable.

                  For the record, I also agree that the defense "just a child - a victim of the system" is not valid. In a world without consequences, there can be no justice. I have often told my boys, "I understand why you did what you did - that doesn't excuse it."
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    Given your experience, your prejudice is understandable. Like this young man/child, however, that doesn't make it excusable.
                    Say WHAT?
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Say WHAT?
                      Prejudice is understandable. We can recognize where it comes from and why we have it. That does not make it excusable.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        I thought some more about this while dealing with a 28 year old man who can't seem to get his life together, and has managed to violate the terms of his probation, and sat there crying like a baby when he was told he's about a hair's breadth away from revocation.

                        It reminded me of my cop days, and the number of times I arrested an 18 or 19 year old thug for armed robbery or rape, had to physically fight with them, once getting stabbed requiring 16 stitches in my leg near my groin..... and these gangsta thugs would show up in court all cleaned up, gentleman's haircut, suit and tie, and acting as polite as could be while their public defender portrayed them as "just a child, a victim of the system...." crap.

                        So, yeah, I admit my prejudice.
                        Technically, that's not prejudice, which means "an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge". On the contrary, you appear to be expressing an informed opinion.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Technically, that's not prejudice, which means "an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge". On the contrary, you appear to be expressing an informed opinion.
                          Actually - no - he's not. Taking the experience with Group A and applying it to Individual B without any justification except their membership in the group CAN be (and often is) prejudiced.

                          Example: If I call someone "racist" because they are politically very conservative and racist people (e.g., neo-nazis, etc.) tend to be right more often than they are left - I am being prejudiced with no justification. "Racism" has nothing to do with being "politically conservative," so I am justifying my views on the basis of a correlation without a causal link. Likewise if I call them racist because they call themselves Christian and the KKK calls itself a Christian organization, I am again, unjustified in making that claim.

                          If I call someone "racist," however, because they are a card-carrying member of the KKK - then my prejudice has merit. The purpose of that organization is racism - and joining is a act conveying agreement with the organization.

                          CP is taking a position based on his experience that defense attorneys, who are obligated in our legal system to give their clients the best defense they are capable of giving, use the "just a child" and "victim of circumstance" argument because it often works. As a result of that, he reacted to my statement that Mr. Cruz is a "child," assuming I was attempting to excuse or justify his behavior. That was an assumption inappropriately prejudiced by his experience. Understanding cghild development and psychology does not, to me, excuse their choices. Understanding and excusing are not the same thing.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            Prejudice is understandable. We can recognize where it comes from and why we have it. That does not make it excusable.
                            I don't need "excused" from having a viewpoint different from yours based on solid experience.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Technically, that's not prejudice, which means "an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge". On the contrary, you appear to be expressing an informed opinion.
                              Yeah, that --- and it's not just from incidents 40+years ago in my "cop days", but ongoing life experience throughout my life.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                I don't need "excused" from having a viewpoint different from yours based on solid experience.
                                I'm not suggesting you do. I'm suggesting that you're misapplying your experience to what I am saying. You have described a backdrop in which people who had run afoul of the law were being "excused" on the basis of being "children" or a "victim of circumstance." No one is questioning that experience, or your distaste for it. I actually share some of that distaste. But you reacted to my statement about Mr. Cruz as if my use of "child" were of the same ilk. At no point did I say I was excusing his behavior - you apparently added that to my meaning on the basis of your experience. That is what I am referencing.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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