Florida School Shooting

[rogue06]

The article is unclear. How many of those were legally purchased by the shooter and how many of them were legally purchased by someone else but the shooter ended up using, possibly by stealing?

Exactly. I think they are conflating legal purchases by the shooter and legal purchases by say a family member that the shooter ended up taking.

[rogue06]

Well, it's much easier to conceal a gun than a ladder.

Seriously, I just think it's naive to think that making guns illegal - or even banning them completely - will prevent those who purpose to do evil from acquiring them.

But making various drugs illegal has worked so marvelously at keeping people from getting them.

[rogue06]

The Boston Marathon terrorists caused tremendous destruction without firing a single shot.

Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel discovered simply getting behind the wheel of a truck can cause mass casualties (86 dead; 458 wounded)

[Cow Poke]

But making various drugs illegal has worked so marvelously at keeping people from getting them.

And where you have illegal drugs, I can almost guarantee you'll have illegal guns. I think this is yet another example of "every problem is the result of a previous solution".

[rogue06]

Probably better than it would have if we had decided as a nation to shrug our shoulders and do nothing. Or are you for the legalization of crack, heroin, meth and the like?

There are a number of countries with far more lenient laws regarding possession that don't have as high as an abuse rate as we do. Why do you think that is?

[rogue06]

And where you have illegal drugs, I can almost guarantee you'll have illegal guns. I think this is yet another example of "every problem is the result of a previous solution".

A friend of mine's father was a deputy in the Fulton County (Atlanta) jail and told some fascinating stories about prisoners in secure lock up still getting their hands on drugs and even firearms. If you can't keep them out of jail -- or even maximum security prisons which have similar problems -- what hope do we have of keeping them out of an ostensibly free society?

This is the point I should probably note how illiterate villagers in the mountains of Afghanistan replicate modern weapons with an amazing amount of success utilizing things like the Lost Wax casting process (a technique that has been around for over 6000 years) and now today with the advent of 3-D printers, even some stoner teenager can make a serviceable firearm with little effort.

[rogue06]

I don't think that's true. Most of the mass shooters weren't gangbangers or hoodrats. I've been in really shady situations to buy drugs as a dumb teen...it's not easy...you have to have connections, it's not cheap, and it's scary. That's just to buy weed, or LSD, can't imagine buying a gun.

I've had many a friend tell me it was far easier scoring illegal drugs back when they were in High School then after they graduated. "Connections" were everywhere. And, trust me on this, it is also pretty darn easy getting a stolen gun in High School as well (teenagers make up a huge percent of burglars and things like firearms are the sort of stuff they steal) -- even in affluent areas.

[rogue06]

There's that deja vu kicking in again. Yes, I agree with you that there is a bigger problem. I believe in a multi-tiered approach that would include restricting/banning weapons, education, and evangelism (among any other approaches that might be on the table),.

I'm growing fonder of CP's suggestion of prohibiting anyone under 21 from buying a semi-automatic firearm.

[rogue06]

Strictly regulated medical use under the supervision of a doctor is the only exception I can think of for narcotics, or even "soft" drugs like marijuana (the "medical marijuana" debate was nothing more than a backdoor for legalizing unregulated casual use).

While some have tried to use it that way it is indisputable that marijuana offers effective treatment to a wide variety of ailments.

[Adrift]

I've had many a friend tell me it was far easier scoring illegal drugs back when they were in High School then after they graduated. "Connections" were everywhere. And, trust me on this, it is also pretty darn easy getting a stolen gun in High School as well (teenagers make up a huge percent of burglars and things like firearms are the sort of stuff they steal) -- even in affluent areas.

I was one of those teens. It wasn't really. I mean, I knew a guy who knew guys, and 7 times and out 10 I could score, but it was still a pain in the • Edited by a Moderator •. It took a bit of planning. It was often sketchy as all get out, especially if you had to go into some jacked up ghetto. I remember more than a few occasions sitting on some hoodrat's couch, with shady looking people in and out, crackheads at the door, and guns on the coffee table thinking to myself "what the hell am I doing here". As a teen, buying a gun from someone would have been super freaky, and not nearly as easy as you might think. Certainly not as easy as going to my local Walmart. I know that for a fact.

[Adrift]

I'm growing fonder of CP's suggestion of prohibiting anyone under 21 from buying a semi-automatic firearm.

By my count, the majority of mass shootings were accomplished by men over the age of 21. So, while I suppose it's something, I'm afraid it wouldn't go far enough.

[rogue06]

I was one of those teens. It wasn't really. I mean, I knew a guy who knew guys, and 7 times and out 10 I could score, but it was still a pain in the ass. It took a bit of planning. It was often sketchy as all get out, especially if you had to go into some jacked up ghetto. I remember more than a few occasions sitting on some hoodrat's couch, with shady looking people in and out, crackheads at the door, and guns on the coffee table thinking to myself "what the hell am I doing here".

When I was in school you generally could get a bag of pot without leaving school grounds.

As a teen, buying a gun from someone would have been super freaky, and not nearly as easy as you might think. Certainly not as easy as going to my local Walmart. I know that for a fact.

When I said "believe me" I meant I was speaking from experience. My brother asked me if I knew anyone with a hot .357 for sale. Again, I didn't even have to leave school grounds. Roughly an hour after asking a certain someone I was stepping into his brother's car in the parking lot and examining three. All were essentially pieces of junk (the owner[s] let them get dirty and rusty), but nevertheless obtaining one wouldn't have been a problem.

And I should add I went to probably the best High School in the most affluent county in the state.

[rogue06]

By my count, the majority of mass shootings were accomplished by men over the age of 21. So, while I suppose it's something, I'm afraid it wouldn't go far enough.

I'm thinking specifically of school shootings.

[Adrift]

So are you one who thinks that simply by having less money -- being less affluent -- tends to cause one to be more likely to be violent? Somehow I doubt that was what you meant.

I'm not sure what (or perhaps "why") you're asking. If you're asking me if there is a correlation between poverty and crime, then the answer is obviously yes. I don't think that's at all controversial. Being poor, in of itself, doesn't make one a criminal, but impoverished circumstances can certainly give rise to opportunistic behaviors, and familiarity with those who will take advantage of those opportunities. Isn't this all common sense though?

[Adrift]

When I was in school you generally could get a bag of pot without leaving school grounds.


When I said "believe me" I meant I was speaking from experience. My brother asked me if I knew anyone with a hot .357 for sale. Again, I didn't even have to leave school grounds. Roughly an hour after asking a certain someone I was stepping into his brother's car in the parking lot and examining three. All were essentially pieces of junk (the owner[s] let them get dirty and rusty), but nevertheless obtaining one wouldn't have been a problem.

And I should add I went to probably the best High School in the most affluent county in the state.

I suppose we came from very different neighborhoods then, or perhaps very different time periods. Obtaining stolen guns, especially after only an hour AND on school property wouldn't have been easy in the 90s. Perhaps it's easier today, though. I don't know.