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Florida School Shooting

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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Obviously not everybody is put off by a sketchy seller, otherwise the black market wouldn't exist.
    The point is, it's harder. I'd rather go to Walmart and buy my guns legally than deal with a sketchy dude in some back alley selling illegal firearms. I don't understand why this is a complicated notion.

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    • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
      The point is, it's harder. I'd rather go to Walmart and buy my guns legally than deal with a sketchy dude in some back alley selling illegal firearms. I don't understand why this is a complicated notion.
      Somebody who has a criminal record, or intends to commit a crime, doesn't really have the option of buying their weapon of choice at Walmart. Walmart, or any other legitimate seller of firearms, needs to document the transaction.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Somebody who has a criminal record, or intends to commit a crime, doesn't really have the option of buying their weapon of choice at Walmart. Walmart, or any other legitimate seller of firearms, needs to document the transaction.
        Plenty (I'm assuming the majority) of mass shooters didn't have criminal records. And didn't someone up-thread point out that most gun homicides were committed with legally purchased weapons? I feel like the same few things keep getting repeated over and over again.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
          Plenty (I'm assuming the majority) of mass shooters didn't have criminal records.
          Is this an assumption, or a fact?

          And didn't someone up-thread point out that most gun homicides were committed with legally purchased weapons?
          I've lost track, but I think that's accurate, with the caveat that often it's because the system failed - like the Air Force failing to report on their own mass-shooter, of incidents of emotionally disturbed persons not being considered, etc...

          I feel like the same few things keep getting repeated over and over again.
          It's Tweb!
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Is this an assumption, or a fact?
            It's definitely a fact that plenty of mass shooters didn't have criminal records, and acquired their weapons legally, but it's my assumption that it's the majority.

            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            I've lost track, but I think that's accurate, with the caveat that often it's because the system failed - like the Air Force failing to report on their own mass-shooter, of incidents of emotionally disturbed persons not being considered, etc...
            It seems to me that it's likely the system will always fail in that regard. For instance, the documentary I linked in another thread pointed out that it's simply impossible to prevent every mentally unfit individual from buying a weapon. It's not always evident, it's often very hard to diagnose, and it leads to all sorts of slippery slopes. While I'm all for greater access to mental healthcare, and think that could help, I think it's only part of the solution.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
              It's definitely a fact that plenty of mass shooters didn't have criminal records, and acquired their weapons legally, but it's my assumption that it's the majority.


              It seems to me that it's likely the system will always fail in that regard. For instance, the documentary I linked in another thread pointed out that it's simply impossible to prevent every mentally unfit individual from buying a weapon. It's not always evident, it's often very hard to diagnose, and it leads to all sorts of slippery slopes. While I'm all for greater access to mental healthcare, and think that could help, I think it's only part of the solution.
              But I think it's a more important, relevant and "fixable" part of the problem than rounding up 350 million guns or making more laws that won't be enforced.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                But I think it's a more important, relevant and "fixable" part of the problem than rounding up 350 million guns or making more laws that won't be enforced.
                Like I said upthread, I'm for a multi-tiered response. Let's do both!

                Comment


                • Statistically there will always be a certain small percentage of a population that will commit horrendous crimes like school shootings. The reason we see more now is that the population has risen so the number of such individuals goes up. Couple that with the spotlight that is put on such incidents by 24 hour news media and there you go.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                    Like I said upthread, I'm for a multi-tiered response. Let's do both!
                    Except, of course, the insane stuff I try to discuss.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                      Do we know if there's been a reduction of lives lost when violent crimes have been committed since the buy back, or has that remained steady as well? A quick Google suggests that homicide rates are at their lowest in 25 years, but if you have evidence to the contrary I'd like to check it out.
                      Homicide rates in America have also decreased in the same period of time.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Statistically there will always be a certain small percentage of a population that will commit horrendous crimes like school shootings. The reason we see more now is that the population has risen so the number of such individuals goes up. Couple that with the spotlight that is put on such incidents by 24 hour news media and there you go.

                        While I think you're right to imply that your risk of actually being caught up in a mass shooting is rare, the Washington Post reports that before the 1966 University of Texas tower shooting there were 25 incidences where 4 or more people were killed in a mass shooting, but since then the incidences of mass shootings has risen dramatically, with higher body counts. This is especially evident starting in the late 80s with the rise of the first Postal shootings. The deadliest shootings have been within the last decade.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Except, of course, the insane stuff I try to discuss.
                          Well, yeah, I definitely think that arming teachers should be off the board.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                            While I think you're right to imply that your risk of actually being caught up in a mass shooting is rare, the Washington Post reports that before the 1966 University of Texas tower shooting there were 25 incidences where 4 or more people were killed in a mass shooting, but since then the incidences of mass shootings has risen dramatically, with higher body counts. This is especially evident starting in the late 80s with the rise of the first Postal shootings. The deadliest shootings have been within the last decade.
                            The spotlight put on these incidents by the media not only magnifies their significance in the public consciousness, but also inspires more of these disturbed and evil individuals to do the same. They want fame.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                              Well, yeah, I definitely think that arming teachers should be off the board.
                              That's already happening here in Texas. Heard this on the news not long ago. I believe this is a small town North of Dallas, TX.

                              Armed teachers.jpg

                              http://www.kxii.com/content/news/Flo...474343983.html
                              "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                              "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                Homicide rates in America have also decreased in the same period of time.
                                Ok, well let's look at the big picture then:

                                Universally, gun homicides have been going down in industrial nations since the early 90s, which is good!

                                At the same time, there's been a tightening of gun control laws in the US, much stricter gun control laws/bans in Australia, and relative to the US, stricter gun laws throughout most other industrial nations.

                                Also at the same time we've seen a rise in legal gun purchases in the US, many for first time owners, but mostly for previous gun owners.

                                While homicide rates have been going down, mass shootings are on the rise in the US, and are getting deadlier. Australia, on the other hand, has seen a complete elimination of mass shootings since their ban. This is a bit controversial though, since it depends on how you number a mass shooting, but at any rate, we can say that Australia not experiencing nearly the levels of mass gun violence that they did before the ban.

                                While gun homicides are down overall, the US still suffers from the worst gun homicide rate of any industrial nation, putting us in the company of some relatively dangerous developing nations.

                                Also, the majority of gun homicides are done with those legally purchased.

                                Finally, none of this factors in other sorts of gun violence like suicides and accidental deaths (gun suicides in America outnumber homicides 2 to 1).

                                Now, obviously correlation does not always equal causation, but I think there are certain trends we can pick up from above. Most people on this forum, even those who are pro-gun, seem to acknowledge that gun violence in America is a pressing issue, and one that needs addressing.

                                Comment

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