Florida School Shooting

[Cow Poke]

Every Marine I knew who used both the 14 and 16, and in combat, prefered the 14. The 14's problem was that it was heavy and the rounds were larger so you couldn't carry as many. I never had a problem with accuracy in full auto, any more than any other auto...

[Mountain Man]

The argument of the gun grabbers is it might work so let's do it.

Despite all the evidence showing that disarming law-abiding citizens is one of the worst ideas imaginable.

[guacamole]

politicians do

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

Just the liberal ones, right?

I wasn't there, and neither were you.

Didn't claim to be. I'm reading articles posted in this thread, specifically this one from the Miami Herald posted by Mountain Man:



I'm having trouble figuring out any other legit point he could have been arrested. I'm not trying to debate a point here.

yay

That's unnecessarily snide. I could give you the same response about your good friend the conservative, black superintendent who is your stand-in preacher--Instead, I'll suggest you ask him what the policy is regarding the disposition of troubled students--when do they belong in classrooms and when should they be expelled? That policy is often set at the statehouse, and not in district, and in this case, both of those statehouses are overwhelmingly conservative--Texas and Florida.

Here's Florida's zero tolerance policy, for example (I know that, probably, no one will read it):

http://www.fldoe.org/schools/safe-he...ce-policy.stml

Some useful quotes:

(3) Zero-tolerance policies must require students found to have committed one of the following offenses to be expelled, with or without continuing educational services, from the student's regular school for a period of not less than 1 full year, and to be referred to the criminal justice or juvenile justice system.

(a) Bringing a firearm or weapon, as defined in chapter 790, to school, to any school function, or onto any school-sponsored transportation or possessing a firearm at school.
(b) Making a threat or false report, as defined by ss. 790.162 and 790.163, respectively, involving school or school personnel's property, school transportation, or a school-sponsored activity.

District school boards may assign the student to a disciplinary program for the purpose of continuing educational services during the period of expulsion. District school superintendents may consider the 1-year expulsion requirement on a case-by-case basis and request the district school board to modify the requirement by assigning the student to a disciplinary program or second chance school if the request for modification is in writing and it is determined to be in the best interest of the student and the school system. If a student committing any of the offenses in this subsection is a student who has a disability, the district school board shall comply with applicable State Board of Education rules.

Emphasis mine for the relevant text.

And there is another hedging of the rule for restraint later:

(8) School districts are encouraged to use alternatives to expulsion or referral to law enforcement agencies unless the use of such alternatives will pose a threat to school safety.

So no, it isn't just liberal rules.

No, that's not the argument. The argument is that it's a 2nd Amendment Right.

This thread and website is full of the argument that gun control doesn't work from conservatives. Whether or not the second amendment rules out any particular strategy of gun control is another question.

No, it's time to look at the actual factors involved, and stop using it as a "gun grabber" excuse.

We could do a lot of things. I suspect we will do the same thing we've always done: Nothing.

You really should avoid those dumb general statements, as, particularly in this case, you were apparently stunningly wrong.

Next time I'll write it this way:

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

That filthy liberal teacher was a real hero.

Or, if people don't get it:

Wow. That was an incredible sacrifice. Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to pigeon hole people based on perceptions and move away from the liberal/evil ~ conservative/saintly dichotomy.

fwiw,
guacamole

[Cow Poke]

Wow. That was an incredible sacrifice. Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to pigeon hole people based on perceptions and move away from the liberal/evil ~ conservative/saintly dichotomy.

fwiw,
guacamole

I assumed he was a conservative, for a number of reasons. It appears I was correct, and I wasn't "quick" coming to that conclusion.

[guacamole]

I assumed he was a conservative, for a number of reasons. It appears I was correct, and I wasn't "quick" coming to that conclusion.

I didn't say that you were.

[Cow Poke]

I didn't say that you were.

I didn't say that you said that I were.

[RumTumTugger]

The obvious answer there is that you shouldn't make the defense of an entire school depend on a single person.

just broke today it wasn't just the school officer that stood outside the building but 3 other deputy sheriffs that arrived in time. heads had better role and the conversation should be who failed why and how it did, not talking about taking guns away from law abiding citizens. We coudln't trust the sheriff department to do what they were trained for but you want them to bed allowed to take guns from law abiding citizens bull. it is NOT THE GUN. it is the human behind the gun and the HUMANS who dropped the ball.

[Mountain Man]

One guy could be blamed on cowardice or fear, but four officers failing to take action makes me think something else is going on, such as a strange department policy that puts the lives of the police ahead of citizens, or officers unwilling to be castigated for shooting a "kid".

[Tassman]

One guy could be blamed on cowardice or fear, but four officers failing to take action makes me think something else is going on, such as a strange department policy that puts the lives of the police ahead of citizens, or officers unwilling to be castigated for shooting a "kid".

Poor training is the obvious explanation. Their response should have been immediate, almost instinctive. Their hesitation seemed based upon not knowing what to do.

[Mountain Man]

Would it imperil the fabricate of space and time if I said that for once, I actually agree with Tassman?

[RumTumTugger]

Would it imperil the fabricate of space and time if I said that for once, I actually agree with Tassman?

even a stopped watch is correct twice a day.

[kiwimac]

Despite all the evidence showing that disarming law-abiding citizens is one of the worst ideas imaginable.

Why?

[Psychic Missile]

So basically you want to blame the guns even when it is blatently obvious that the entire tragedy could have been prevented at many points along the timeline, from the school failing to report him to authorities, to the mental health professionals who were treating him, to the FBI who was warned about him, to the deputy who just stood there outside while he mowed down students?

You are such a tool. Liberal puppet.

That fact that there were so many failures proves that we can not blindly trust, in perpetuity, that these systems set up to prevent this kind of thing will work. Someone or some group of people is bound to get lazy, be incompetent, or make a mistake. Restricting access to firearms is the most significant change we can make for prevention purposes.

[Psychic Missile]

Correlation does not equal causation...

We know this because the leaders on the board for most gun homicides are countries with very restrictive gun laws...

Care to elaborate on your second point?

[Psychic Missile]

Nothing will be 100% effective. Gun grabbers are willing to reduce shooting deaths by taking guns, but one failure of one armed guard and you want to throw out the whole idea.

It's not a single failure. There have been multiple mass shootings that were in venues with some form of armed security. What we've seen time and again is that shootings can occur so quickly that by the time security responds there's already a significant body count. We've also seen that, even when security is able to immediately fire back, they can still have difficulty hitting the criminal.