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Florida School Shooting

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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    A better armed public is a viable solution.
    You have no idea how completely bonkers you are.
    OR
    When you are in a hole, stop digging.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      I have made no such claim.
      I know you haven't but I really hate platitudes like "it's not a gun problem, it's a sin problem". That's true from a theological point of view but it sounds like an excuse not to look any further at the issue.

      I wish I knew the solution. I don't think any of us do.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

        I wish I knew the solution. I don't think any of us do.
        If you notice that this is almost exclusively an American problem then you can look for solutions by comparing American culture with foreign cultures. For example, do you have a social system that gives assistance to wayward kids at an early stage? Why would you leave it so late that the FBI is supposed to prevent a tragedy?
        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
        “not all there” - you know who you are

        Comment


        • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          I know you haven't but I really hate platitudes like "it's not a gun problem, it's a sin problem". That's true from a theological point of view but it sounds like an excuse not to look any further at the issue.

          I wish I knew the solution. I don't think any of us do.
          Part of why we do not know of any solution is because research into gun violence has been defunded. Perhaps the first step is to fund this research, so we can arrive at suggested solutions that are based on evidence.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            Part of why we do not know of any solution is because research into gun violence has been defunded. Perhaps the first step is to fund this research, so we can arrive at suggested solutions that are based on evidence.
            I'm probably close to being on your side on the issue but do you really think throwing more money at research will do anything? We've already had plenty of public health research on gun violence which has gone ignored by legislators.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              Part of why we do not know of any solution is because research into gun violence has been defunded. Perhaps the first step is to fund this research, so we can arrive at suggested solutions that are based on evidence.
              What exactly is "defunded"? You have studies done by the NRA and "gun rights" people, and they pay for those. They are "funded". What's keeping the anti-gun (or, probably from your perspective, the "sane people") from funding studies. If it's important enough, they'll cough up the money.

              There are plenty of very rich anti-gun liberals who could fund all kinds of research.

              I think the problem, though, is "who funded the study" becomes a reason to dismiss it. Just as any study I cited that was funded by a gun rights organization would be discounted.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                I'm probably close to being on your side on the issue but do you really think throwing more money at research will do anything? We've already had plenty of public health research on gun violence which has gone ignored by legislators.
                or that
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                  If you notice that this is almost exclusively an American problem then you can look for solutions by comparing American culture with foreign cultures. For example, do you have a social system that gives assistance to wayward kids at an early stage?
                  That's actually a very good question, and is a bigger more manageable part of the puzzle than "too many guns".

                  The NYPost reports that Deputies [were] called to suspected shooter’s home 39 times over seven years... everybody who knew this kid knew he was a problem. All the signs were there. In my own community, dealing with an EDP, I was flat out told by the police AND the MHMR that there was nothing they could do because he wasn't claiming to be suicidal or homicidal. It took a lot of pushing on my part, but the "solution" was for me to go before a judge as an advocate, and basically "swear out a warrant" for his arrest (with his knowledge and cooperation).

                  That's idiotic that I would have to do that for somebody who knew he was in deep trouble and wanted help.

                  Why would you leave it so late that the FBI is supposed to prevent a tragedy?
                  I wouldn't. Didn't.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Kelly Guthrie Raley was named “Teacher of the Year” at her Florida school, Eustis Middle School, for the 2017-2018 school year last month, according to Fox News. But now she’s being recognized for her cultural commentary following the tragic Florida school shooting:

                    Kelly Guthrie Raley

                    February 15 at 8:25am · Eustis, FL ·

                    Okay, I’ll be the bad guy and say what no one else is brave enough to say, but wants to say. I’ll take all the criticism and attacks from everyone because you know what? I’m a TEACHER. I live this life daily. And I wouldn’t do anything else! But I also know daily I could end up in an active shooter situation.

                    Until we, as a country, are willing to get serious and talk about mental health issues, lack of available care for the mental health issues, lack of discipline in the home, horrendous lack of parental support when the schools are trying to control horrible behavior at school (oh no! Not MY KID. What did YOU do to cause my kid to react that way?), lack of moral values, and yes, I’ll say it-violent video games that take away all sensitivity to ANY compassion for others’ lives, as well as reality TV that makes it commonplace for people to constantly scream up in each others’ faces and not value any other person but themselves, we will have a gun problem in school. Our kids don’t understand the permanency of death anymore!!!

                    I grew up with guns. Everyone knows that. But you know what? My parents NEVER supported any bad behavior from me. I was terrified of doing something bad at school, as I would have not had a life until I corrected the problem and straightened my ass out. My parents invaded my life. They knew where I was ALL the time. They made me have a curfew. They made me wake them up when I got home. They made me respect their rules. They had full control of their house, and at any time could and would go through every inch of my bedroom, backpack, pockets, anything! Parents: it’s time to STEP UP! Be the parent that actually gives a crap! Be the annoying mom that pries and knows what your kid is doing. STOP being their friend. They have enough “friends” at school. Be their parent. Being the “cool mom” means not a damn thing when either your kid is dead or your kid kills other people because they were allowed to have their space and privacy in YOUR HOME. I’ll say it again. My home was filled with guns growing up. For God’s sake, my daddy was an 82nd Airborne Ranger who lost half his face serving our country. But you know what? I never dreamed of shooting anyone with his guns. I never dreamed of taking one! I was taught respect for human life, compassion, rules, common decency, and most of all, I was taught that until I moved out, my life and bedroom wasn’t mine...it was theirs. And they were going to know what was happening because they loved me and wanted the best for me.

                    There. Say that I’m a horrible person. I didn’t bring up gun control, and I will refuse to debate it with anyone. This post wasn’t about gun control. This was me, loving the crap out of people and wanting the best for them. This was about my school babies and knowing that God created each one for greatness, and just wanting them to reach their futures. It’s about 20 years ago this year I started my teaching career. Violence was not this bad 20 years ago. Lack of compassion wasn’t this bad 20 years ago. And God knows 20 years ago that I wasn’t afraid daily to call a parent because I KNEW that 9 out of 10 would cuss me out, tell me to go to Hell, call the news on me, call the school board on me, or post all over FaceBook about me because I called to let them know what their child chose to do at school...because they are a NORMAL kid!!!!!

                    Those 17 lives mattered. When are we going to take our own responsibility seriously?

                    https://www.facebook.com/kellygraley...56224702772958
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      What exactly is "defunded"? You have studies done by the NRA and "gun rights" people, and they pay for those. They are "funded". What's keeping the anti-gun (or, probably from your perspective, the "sane people") from funding studies. If it's important enough, they'll cough up the money.

                      There are plenty of very rich anti-gun liberals who could fund all kinds of research.

                      I think the problem, though, is "who funded the study" becomes a reason to dismiss it. Just as any study I cited that was funded by a gun rights organization would be discounted.
                      I would never trust a study funded by an organization with an agenda. I suggest funding be restored to the CDC, which is charged with research related to American health threats of all kinds.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        I would never trust a study funded by an organization with an agenda. I suggest funding be restored to the CDC, which is charged with research related to American health threats of all kinds.
                        I think it's hilarious that you don't think the CDC has an agenda.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Kelly Guthrie Raley
                          Until we, as a country, are willing to get serious and talk about mental health issues, lack of available care for the mental health issues...
                          As someone with mental health issues, I agree with this completely, but I'm also getting tired of hearing it from the right... particularly the "we need to gut entitlement programs! The government needs to get out of healthcare! Most people on government assistance are lazy and just don't want to get a job!" part of the right, who from what I've seen are the ones who tend to yell the loudest about the "need to expand mental-health care in our country" whenever there's a mass shooting and gun-control becomes a national topic of discussion. It sounds like nothing more "we need something to divert attention away from discussions about gun-control until things die down" coming from this crowd.

                          I'm especially annoyed by the right-wing politicians who say this. Ok, so... do something about it then. It's not like "expanding mental health care" is an area where you're going to encounter a lot of resistance from the left. It should be easy enough to get something going, but all we ever get are more cuts and reductions to relevant programs and nothing new being offered to take their place.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            I think it's hilarious that you don't think the CDC has an agenda.
                            The CDC's agenda is to protect public health and safety. What's the NRA's agenda?
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              I think it's hilarious that you don't think the CDC has an agenda.
                              ~sigh~ Yet another conservative attempt to discredit all possible sources of information outside of the Conservative Propaganda Bubble.
                              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                Kelly Guthrie Raley was named “Teacher of the Year” at her Florida school, Eustis Middle School, for the 2017-2018 school year last month, according to Fox News. But now she’s being recognized for her cultural commentary following the tragic Florida school shooting:
                                violent video games that take away all sensitivity to ANY compassion for others’ lives
                                This isn't a thing. If it was I would be a remorseless psychopath by now, simply because of the amount of hours I've put in to playing "violent video games" in my life.

                                Comment

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