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Florida School Shooting

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  • Originally posted by ke7ejx View Post
    First of all, you don't a thing about me to make such dishonest conclusions.
    Video evidence of my dishonesty please. If you're going to make false claims that I am dishonest, I do actually expect you to back them up. I am many things: Blunt, forthright, opinionated, even obnoxiously so at times, but I am very very very far from ever being dishonest.

    I believe in stronger background checks and waiting periods. I also believe in protecting victims of domestic violence.
    Okay that's great.

    you have the burden to prove your arguments as you said all conservatives.
    No. Please don't make false claims. I did not say all conservatives. I did not use the word all, which you have highlighted. I said:
    The pro-gun anti-regulation US conservatives are morally responsible for these murders it's that simple.
    The "pro-gun anti-regulation US conservatives" are a subset of conservatives. It appears to be a subset you are not part of, as you have said above you support regulations.

    If you wish to troll, I suggest your find a way to make sure your trolling is less pathetic.
    I would say that to you. You seem to have a tendency toward trolling me in threads.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
      Thanks, and no, but we'll have counselors on campus, tomorrow. This morning's email, which I've now received three times, doesn't do much for my confidence.



      Part of why I posted was to say that for those of us close to this, it's not the time to talk about gun control. And for me, personally, I don't even know how to talk about this with my kids.

      I'm open to suggestions.
      I'm no parent, but I have had my younger classmates (many of them are 10 years younger than I am) come to me with questions about these sort of topics. I found that speaking honestly makes a difference. There are evil people out there who will misuse such a tool for evil means, that 17 year old being one. I also cautioned against giving in to hysteria and to really study both sides of the issue than what the Facebook posts have to say. Even now, they need to be encouraged to research and come to their own conclusions on the subject. It's too easy to give into emotional manipulation.
      I am Punkinhead.

      "I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"

      ~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....

      Comment


      • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
        Part of why I posted was to say that for those of us close to this, it's not the time to talk about gun control. And for me, personally, I don't even know how to talk about this with my kids.

        I'm open to suggestions.
        Listen. Seriously. There's nothing wrong with saying "I don't have the answers", but I'm interested in what you think. And just listen. Some of them just want to talk.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Listen. Seriously. There's nothing wrong with saying "I don't have the answers", but I'm interested in what you think. And just listen. Some of them just want to talk.
          This. Exactly this.
          I am Punkinhead.

          "I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"

          ~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
            As far as how to talk about something truly tragic like this, I'm not sure there is a way. It's like talking to somebody whose parent just died (I know a bit about this)...there's nothing you can say that will "help" in any meaningful sense. Anything I can think of to offer is going to sound lame and/or cheesy, no matter how well-intentioned.

            So, I dunno. Sometimes I think grieving with somebody is all you can really do.
            EGGzackly -- even when you've had a similar situation (as you suggest in your example) one of the worst things you can say (in my opinion) is "I know how you feel". So you just listen, and "be there".
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              EGGzackly -- even when you've had a similar situation (as you suggest in your example) one of the worst things you can say (in my opinion) is "I know how you feel". So you just listen, and "be there".
              After this sort of experience many aren't so much as expecting answers but just wanting to let it out.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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              • Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                I don't think this is a dum librulz issue. We all support some dangerous things being taken out of the hands of society at large. For some reason, guns get a pass.
                Compared to firearms, alcohol is responsible for more fatalities and serious non-fatal injuries, but there isn't exactly a big push from anyone on any part of the political spectrum to ban it, or at least implement major new regulations aimed at vastly reducing its sale and/or consumption.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  I guess we need the police from Minority Report. That'll fix em.
                  That's part of what I'm trying to get at. The laws, as written, probably wouldn't have saved lives in this case.

                  Some things can't be fixed Guac. Although if the FBI had investigated the report they had on him, they might have been able to prevent it. Or if someone did send him to a therapist or had him committed.
                  How could the FBI have confiscated a legally purchased gun from an owner who hadn't yet committed a felony? Would a therapist have really committed him against his will for posting things on the internet that trolls post all the time?

                  I'm not buyin' it.

                  fwiw,
                  guacamole
                  "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
                  Hear my cry, hear my shout,
                  Save me, save me"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by CMD View Post
                    Compared to firearms, alcohol is responsible for more fatalities and serious non-fatal injuries, but there isn't exactly a big push from anyone on any part of the political spectrum to ban it, or at least implement major new regulations aimed at vastly reducing its sale and/or consumption.
                    I'm all for renewed prohibition, and I do think we should more strictly control booze! I am, after all, a good, old fundamentalist teetotaler. At any rate, whether or not we decide to control alcohol is irrelevant to whether or not we could save lives with a different gun policy or whether or not we protect the innocent by banning or more strictly controlling certain things.

                    fwiw,
                    guacamole
                    "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
                    Hear my cry, hear my shout,
                    Save me, save me"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by CMD View Post
                      Compared to firearms, alcohol is responsible for more fatalities and serious non-fatal injuries, but there isn't exactly a big push from anyone on any part of the political spectrum to ban it, or at least implement major new regulations aimed at vastly reducing its sale and/or consumption.
                      Cause we been there, done that, failed miserably.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • I found this compelling. I offer it for your consideration:

                        22365692_1445953865500798_5791805648380710168_n.jpg
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          I found this compelling. I offer it for your consideration:

                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]26520[/ATTACH]
                          Welcome back! Even though you had said....

                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          I do not have the heart to engage in yet another pointless discussion on the need for common-sense gun control, such as has been shown in countless other countries to significantly reduce gun violence. Until the masses refuse to be held hostage by a powerful lobby, a powerful industry, and the demands of the few, we will continue to see our children die.

                          Have at it. I'm not going to be responding further.
                          So, I repeat...

                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          So, you "step in it", then trail it off? What common-sense gun control would have prevented this shooting?
                          Or are you only offering "thoughts"?
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            The pro-gun anti-regulation US conservatives are morally responsible for these murders it's that simple.
                            I would say that the shooters, mostly liberals, are clearly morally responsible for these murders.
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              I found this compelling. I offer it for your consideration:

                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]26520[/ATTACH]
                              the last statement is an outright lie but I'm sure bad faith arguments will help you get what you want
                              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                I found this compelling. I offer it for your consideration:

                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]26520[/ATTACH]
                                The only one that makes any sense as an analogy is the fertilizer one. 1967 and 1982 are simply an adjustment in construction of a product to make it safer, which is not applicable here because the suggestion is to make it harder to purchase a product, not to change the construction of it. The 2001 one is an easy-to-enact policy change. You're comparing what are simple adjustments to something that's a whole lot more complex.

                                I'd also be curious as to how many of those gun deaths would be considered legitimately the fault of the guns, i.e. they would not or could not be done without access to them. For example, are suicides included in those? Because lack of gun is not really a barrier to suicide. Does it include gun deaths that are self-defense? Those certainly aren't a problem (even if one thinks that self defense laws need to be adjusted, that's not the fault of the weapons involved). Does it include gun deaths in gang wars? Because they'd simply switch to a different weapon to kill each other with.
                                Last edited by Terraceth; 02-15-2018, 09:50 PM.

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