Florida School Shooting

[KingsGambit]

Yeah, that's pretty much my sentiment. I think it's only a matter of time really. I don't desire to see this, but I think eventually a tragedy will come along that will be so catastrophic, or the number of mass shootings will increase so dramatically, and/or leadership will change hands so thoroughly that eventually it'll seem like the only sensible option on the table. there will be lots of weeping and gnashing of teeth, and people will complain for a very long time that the buy back didn't work, but the numbers will eventually reflect it, and life will go on. Or at least, that's my hope.

If the shooting of an entire kindergarten class didn't do it, I don't see what would.

[RumTumTugger]

Were the words "Western" and "on this scale" obscured by the Tippex on your monitor?

last I looked France is an western country.

[Mountain Man]

5-months ago, someone with the shooter's exact same name posted a comment on YouTube saying, "Im going to be a professional school shooter". The owner of the YouTube account reported it to the FBI who later claimed they didn't have enough information to track him down.



Seriously? Go post a comment on YouTube threatening to shoot the President, and see how long it takes the Secret Service to come knocking on your front door. I believe the FBI could have found this kid if they really wanted to, but they apparently didn't take the comment seriously enough.

[Mountain Man]

Yeah, that's pretty much my sentiment. I think it's only a matter of time really. I don't desire to see this, but I think eventually a tragedy will come along that will be so catastrophic, or the number of mass shootings will increase so dramatically, and/or leadership will change hands so thoroughly that eventually it'll seem like the only sensible option on the table. there will be lots of weeping and gnashing of teeth, and people will complain for a very long time that the buy back didn't work, but the numbers will eventually reflect it, and life will go on. Or at least, that's my hope.

It's worth noting that some of the deadliest cities in America are the ones with the strictest gun laws.

[Adrift]

It's worth noting that some of the deadliest cities in America are the ones with the strictest gun laws.

Yeah, I know. That's brought up every time this debate resurfaces. I don't find that very impressive though, since all it takes is a short drive out of the city in order to buy a gun legally.

[rogue06]

Yeah, I know. That's brought up every time this debate resurfaces. I don't find that very impressive though, since all it takes is a short drive out of the city in order to buy a gun legally.

So then why aren't the areas where firearms are readily accessible the areas where firearm violence is the highest then?

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, I know. That's brought up every time this debate resurfaces. I don't find that very impressive though, since all it takes is a short drive out of the city in order to buy a gun legally.

But it's not just purchasing that's outlawed - it's the possession of those firearms. Obviously, that doesn't work either.

[Adrift]

So then why aren't the areas where firearms are readily accessible the areas where firearm violence is the highest then?

I'm having deja vu. I've had this exact conversation a couple times on this forum. I imagine the reason there isn't more crime in areas outside of cities that ban guns is because those areas tend to be more affluent, and for that reason tend to have less of the criminal element. The argument isn't that buying legal guns tend to make people criminals, it's that those with who would be criminals shouldn't have easy access to buy guns legally.

But it's not just purchasing that's outlawed - it's the possession of those firearms. Obviously, that doesn't work either.

I'm not sure what difference laws on possession would make. If I have intent to kill, I'm sure I can find ways to prevent my possession of a gun from being noticed by law enforcement, or at least, preventing it from being noticed till the last second.

Maybe we should all just skip to the part where we compare guns to ladders, because ladders kill too. That's typically where this conversation eventually goes.

[Sparko]

Yeah, that's pretty much my sentiment. I think it's only a matter of time really. I don't desire to see this, but I think eventually a tragedy will come along that will be so catastrophic, or the number of mass shootings will increase so dramatically, and/or leadership will change hands so thoroughly that eventually it'll seem like the only sensible option on the table. there will be lots of weeping and gnashing of teeth, and people will complain for a very long time that the buy back didn't work, but the numbers will eventually reflect it, and life will go on. Or at least, that's my hope.

And nothing will change. Criminals will still get guns and shoot people. Or use some other method to kill people. And law abiding citizens will have no way to protect themselves.

Disarming innocent people doesn't disarm criminals.

[Sparko]

last I looked France is an western country.

And England, and Germany, and Norway. Mass killings can take place anywhere in the world and the criminals will use any means they can. Not just guns.

[Cow Poke]

Maybe we should all just skip to the part where we compare guns to ladders, because ladders kill too. That's typically where this conversation eventually goes.

Well, it's much easier to conceal a gun than a ladder.

Seriously, I just think it's naive to think that making guns illegal - or even banning them completely - will prevent those who purpose to do evil from acquiring them.

[Mountain Man]

Yeah, I know. That's brought up every time this debate resurfaces. I don't find that very impressive though, since all it takes is a short drive out of the city in order to buy a gun legally.

Or an even shorter drive within the city to buy one illegally.

[Adrift]

And nothing will change. Criminals will still get guns and shoot people.

In the short term maybe, but long term, I don't think so. But I suppose we'll see.

Or use some other method to kill people. And law abiding citizens will have no way to protect themselves.

I'd rather face some other generally less lethal method than a gun, personally. Other nation's law abiding citizens seem to do fine without guns, so I don't buy the argument that the sky will fall if we make them illegal in the US.

Disarming innocent people doesn't disarm criminals.

I think it will.

[Adrift]

Well, it's much easier to conceal a gun than a ladder.

Seriously, I just think it's naive to think that making guns illegal - or even banning them completely - will prevent those who purpose to do evil from acquiring them.

Paint me naive then.

[Cow Poke]

Paint me naive then.

With a broad brush?