Florida School Shooting

[Jedidiah]

That doesn't mean that the guns will be just as easy to get.

Certainly not for the law abiding citizen.

[guacamole]

Certainly not for the law abiding citizen.

Or anybody, really. Supply and demand and all that.

[Adrift]

Here is the difference:

You are not going to stop drug use by making them illegal, but at least in the case of drugs you will be protecting those who do obey the law and will stay away from illegal drugs. You protect law abiding citizens from them. You won't stop criminals. In the case of guns, you don't want to stop law abiding citizens from having guns, you want to prevent the criminals from having them. You won't.

Drug users don't typically become "criminals" until they do/buy illegal drugs. If the desire is out there, all you're doing is making otherwise law-abiding citizens into non-law-abiding citizens (that's the same argument gun rights advocates make about guns, isn't it). We're seeing that in a big way with the opioid epidemic, where law-abiding citizens become hooked on pain relievers given to them by their doctors, and then buying illegal drugs in order to maintain their fix. One of the big reasons for making drugs illegal is to make them harder to acquire. That's always been one of, if not the main reason for making them illegal. To pretend that isn't, or hasn't always been the case just so can cancel out the comparison with a gun ban is just well, it's silly, and a little disingenuous. If the desire to make drugs illegal was simply to prevent law-abiding citizens from ingesting them, then there would never have been any reason for governments and local agencies to prevent their manufacturing and importation.

[Adrift]

Sure you will prevent some crimes like that, where a normally law-abiding citizen wants to get a gun and doesn't have the means. But you will also be disarming a lot of law-abiding citizens who will be at the mercy of career criminals who don't go to walmart to buy their guns.

I think it's worth the risk if it means less homicides/suicides all the way around.

[Darth Executor]

how does a civil war result in less homicides/suicides all the way around?

[Adrift]

it would be easier and safer to poison him even if guns are available. in fact using guns for premeditated murder is a great way to get caught easily

And yet, firearms are the number one tool used in family murders ( for spouses 62.6% compared to 0.5% for narcotics). https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvs03.pdf

[Adrift]

gun grabbers simply refuse to acknowledge that their policy could have any negative consequences, let alone that those consequences could outweigh the benefits. It's why any conversation on the topic is inevitably low value.

Oh, no. I certainly acknowledge new policies could have negative consequences, I simply believe that the benefits would outweigh the consequences.

[guacamole]

how does a civil war result in less homicides/suicides all the way around?

I wonder how many of the other pro-gun posters would be willing to kill people to prevent reasonable laws from taking place. I guess you really aren't a criminal until you are, eh?

[Zymologist]

I wonder how many of the other pro-gun posters would be willing to kill people to prevent reasonable laws from taking place. I guess you really aren't a criminal until you are, eh?

I wonder how many pro-gun control posters would be willing to kill people to take guns away (for the greater good, of course).

[Darth Executor]

And yet, firearms are the number one tool used in family murders ( for spouses 62.6% compared to 0.5% for narcotics). https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvs03.pdf

I said "premeditated". Most family murders are usually the product of someone snapping.

[Darth Executor]

I wonder how many of the other pro-gun posters would be willing to kill people to prevent reasonable laws from taking place. I guess you really aren't a criminal until you are, eh?

There's nothing reasonable about stripping someone of their ability to defend themselves. In fact you are worse than a murderer. At least the murderer does the dirty deed himself. You manipulate others into doing it for you. This is also why I hate pacifists.

BTW I'm Canadian and don't own a gun, i'm not even speaking for myself. I routinely run into run of the mill conservatives, far more moderate than me, who openly state they would not tolerate being stripped of their guns. You guys are really playing with fire here.

[guacamole]

I wonder how many pro-gun control posters would be willing to kill people to take guns away (for the greater good, of course).

Not me. But Adrift is clearly a tyrannical libtard commie. I'd watch out for him if I were you guys.

[Zymologist]

Not me. But Adrift is clearly a tyrannical libtard commie. I'd watch out for him if I were you guys.

I never said anything like that. I was just commenting on the hypocrisy of freaking out over a potential civil war when a civil war has two sides.

The only reason you'd know if gun owners are willing to kill to keep their guns is if you (or someone you support) is willing to kill to take them away.

[guacamole]

I never said anything like that. I was just commenting on the hypocrisy of freaking out over a potential civil war when a civil war has two sides.

The only reason you'd know if gun owners are willing to kill to keep their guns is if you (or someone you support) is willing to kill to take them away.

I mean, I support law enforcement. If, through legal constitutional means, total gun prohibition was enacted, then I support the gov. in enforcing laws. Do you not?

[Zymologist]

I mean, I support law enforcement. If, through legal constitutional means, total gun prohibition was enacted, then I support the gov. in enforcing laws. Do you not?

There are lots of things that happen through legal means that are morally objectionable. No, I don't support those things.