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Mass Shootings, Why

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  • #46
    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Rigorous background screening, testing, and training is required just to get into the profession. Yearly fingerprinting at the sheriff's office (out of the teacher's own pockets), extensive background checks, multiple levels of testing and observation... (As I learned from when I tried to break in some years ago). This doesn't do a very good job at keeping out the bad apples, at all. I doubt anybody who already got through all those levels would have any problems jumping through just another hoop.
    I'm having a hard time following this. Do you believe the teacher who has sex with a minor was a morally depraved individual who only became a teacher to have access to minors, and managed to "jump through those hoops" to accomplish their immorality? I don't think that's what you intend to say at all.

    But, somehow, teachers who are willing to take on the extra responsibility of defending students from shootings should be painted with the immorality brush because there are those other "bad apples"?

    Seriously, I'm not getting this.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      Rigorous background screening, testing, and training is required just to get into the profession.
      Not really, in comparison.
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      Yearly fingerprinting at the sheriff's office (out of the teacher's own pockets), extensive background checks, multiple levels of testing and observation... (As I learned from when I tried to break in some years ago). This doesn't do a very good job at keeping out the bad apples, at all. I doubt anybody who already got through all those levels would have any problems jumping through just another hoop.
      Something tells me that the background checks for becoming a teacher will pale in comparison -- or at least they should.

      Interestingly, you could make a similar argument for not allowing police to be armed since inevitably there are always a few bad apples.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #48
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        How many teachers get arrested each year for sleeping with students? (Quite a few. Any time someone talks about sexual abuse in the church, there will be a cavalcade of people pointing out that the public school system is worse anyway.) This board usually points out rightly how many bad apples there are in the education system... until it comes to the topic of guns, then somehow teachers can be trusted.
        "My, Grandma, what a broad brush you have!"
        "The better to generalize with, my dear."

        It's not every teacher who is sleeping with students, so your point fails. And we're not saying that every teacher should indiscriminately be handed a gun. There would have to be some controls in place obviously, but those who are willing and can prove themselves trustworthy should be allowed to carry arms in the classroom.
        Last edited by Mountain Man; 02-17-2018, 07:02 PM.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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        • #49
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post

          Interestingly, you could make a similar argument for not allowing police to be armed since inevitably there are always a few bad apples.
          I don't think it would hold water as armed defense is an integral part of policing, whereas the same could not be said for teaching.

          Incidentally, do we have any numbers on how many schools that have had mass shootings had armed SROs on site? I remember offhand that Sandy Hook was one of the few in its district that did not.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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          • #50
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Interestingly, you could make a similar argument for not allowing police to be armed since inevitably there are always a few bad apples.
            Which is where I was going with the "immorality" issue. I've known lots of cops, and there seems to be a special kind of stupid regarding personal relationships. Often, no doubt, hazards of the job, including alcohol problems, divorce, affairs.... but there's still a dedication to the job.

            A common factor, of course, is low pay.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              "My, Grandma, what a broad brush you have!"
              "The better to generalize with, my dear."
              Where were you every time somebody else threw the entire teaching profession under the bus in response to claims about church sexual abuse?
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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              • #52
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                Where were you every time somebody else threw the entire teaching profession under the bus in response to claims about church sexual abuse?
                I'm sorry, don't think I've ever encountered that line of argument.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #53
                  Most teachers would not even have the temperament to handle a gun or actually use it if need be. Relying on that as a solution is a pipe dream. Leave defending the students to professionals. Hire guards. Put in metal detectors if need be.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Most teachers would not even have the temperament to handle a gun or actually use it if need be. Relying on that as a solution is a pipe dream. Leave defending the students to professionals. Hire guards. Put in metal detectors if need be.
                    Which sounds great in theory...but many schools are underfunded as it is...I know teachers here end up buying supplies for their classrooms out of their own pockets because the school can't afford it...
                    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                      Which sounds great in theory...but many schools are underfunded as it is...I know teachers here end up buying supplies for their classrooms out of their own pockets because the school can't afford it...
                      I guess they need to decide where their priorities lay. If the safety of the kids is paramount then they can find a way to fund guards.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        I guess they need to decide where their priorities lay. If the safety of the kids is paramount then they can find a way to fund guards.
                        No just spend more money supporting gun grabbing.
                        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                          Which sounds great in theory...but many schools are underfunded as it is...I know teachers here end up buying supplies for their classrooms out of their own pockets because the school can't afford it...
                          Yet, they can pay all kinds of money for "administration". The school district where I lived before moving to where I am now was REALLY heavy in "administration". And, to have all those important people, you have to have a fancy building for them to office, and high salaries, and "consultants".... there's always money for that!

                          And, when they build a new school building, it's usually with a "bond issue" (a fancy way of saying we're going to raise your taxes) and they hire fancy architects and spend tons of money on it so they can name it after some "accomplished" educrat...
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Yet, they can pay all kinds of money for "administration". The school district where I lived before moving to where I am now was REALLY heavy in "administration". And, to have all those important people, you have to have a fancy building for them to office, and high salaries, and "consultants".... there's always money for that!

                            And, when they build a new school building, it's usually with a "bond issue" (a fancy way of saying we're going to raise your taxes) and they hire fancy architects and spend tons of money on it so they can name it after some "accomplished" educrat...
                            And then they legalize the lottery and promise that the lottery will pay for education. ha.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              And then they legalize the lottery and promise that the lottery will pay for education. ha.
                              Yeah, in Texas, all that meant was the money goes into a different pot, but no real increase in school spending.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                Yeah, in Texas, all that meant was the money goes into a different pot, but no real increase in school spending.
                                yeah typically the reduce the state budget by the amount the lottery contributes so there is no net gain. and most of it ends up in the pockets of the school board.

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