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Mass Shootings, Why

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Adrift View Post
    Police are trained, and yet this nation is tearing itself apart because of the number of incidences of negligent use of force.
    We go through spasms, Adrift - there was a whole bunch of media attention on that, and much of it was hype - it's pretty much died down now.

    Giving guns to teachers would be catastrophic.
    "Giving guns" is a bit misleading - in many cases the discussion has been allowing teachers who are already are concealed-carry licensed to carry their own guns, with additional training for the specific situation. Not all teachers are as incompetent, and I know you're not implying that.

    Not at all. As I've mentioned in the other thread, I'm perfectly fine with a multi-tiered approach. I just think this particular approach is insane.
    Because you're very badly skewing it in the worst possible light.

    Like so bad that it might be best to just let the occasional kid shoot up a school than allow teachers to get into gunfights with their students, or risk accidental and intentional firings on unarmed students.
    wow
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by guacamole View Post
      It's way too easy to blame the demonic "other" for this. There have always been liberals and conservatives as competing political movements. There have always been wave cycles in the loosening and tightening of moral values. This is well documented history.

      The media attention on atrocity and the kind of outraged, ideological bubbles that people inhabit on line have to have something to do with this.
      liberals have lost their marbles in the last decade or so at a rate far beyond their previous levels of insanity. So saying that there has always been some sort of left or right isn't really saying anything. The left of even 20 years ago wasn't trying to do insane stuff like ethnically cleanse the local population and displace it with mexican peasants. You'd have to be truly depraved to still be left wing today.
      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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      • #33
        The problem with arming teachers is that eventually you will get one teacher who ends up being the shooter and the screaming about guns starts all over again. Plus do you really want to make a bunch of liberal teachers be responsible for defending the students? they are more likely to give the gun to the shooter and hide behind their desk.

        Just hire armed guards like they have at banks.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          The problem with arming teachers is that eventually you will get one teacher who ends up being the shooter and the screaming about guns starts all over again. Plus do you really want to make a bunch of liberal teachers be responsible for defending the students? they are more likely to give the gun to the shooter and hide behind their desk.
          I'm going to assume that I have just a really biased view on this, since the teachers I know locally tend to be more conservative, capable, able, level-headed rational NRA types. I guess I'm running with the wrong crowd.

          Just hire armed guards like they have at banks.
          OK
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            I'm going to assume that I have just a really biased view on this, since the teachers I know locally tend to be more conservative, capable, able, level-headed rational NRA types. I guess I'm running with the wrong crowd.



            OK
            well I am just going by all of the crazy stories about our colleges and schools where they teach kids that nobody is ever wrong, creative spelling, safe spaces for students who hear disagreements, etc. I would not want those teachers handling guns.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              well I am just going by all of the crazy stories about our colleges and schools where they teach kids that nobody is ever wrong, creative spelling, safe spaces for students who hear disagreements, etc. I would not want those teachers handling guns.
              Agree wholeheartedly - I guess I just live in a much more conservative community. The local School District Superintendent is my fill-in preacher.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #37
                Of course any teacher who carried a gun would need to prove that they were responsible enough to do so.

                Alternatively, employ military personnel to provide security.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                  The wiser solution seems to be to change the environment so that the student never goes postal in the first place, . . .
                  Nice theory.
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                  • #39
                    How many teachers get arrested each year for sleeping with students? (Quite a few. Any time someone talks about sexual abuse in the church, there will be a cavalcade of people pointing out that the public school system is worse anyway.) This board usually points out rightly how many bad apples there are in the education system... until it comes to the topic of guns, then somehow teachers can be trusted.
                    Last edited by KingsGambit; 02-17-2018, 05:34 PM.
                    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                      How many teachers get arrested each year for sleeping with students? (Quite a few. Any time someone talks about sexual abuse in the church, there will be a cavalcade of people pointing out that the public school system is worse anyway.) This board usually points out rightly how many bad apples there are in the education system... until it comes to the topic of guns, then somehow teachers can be trusted.
                      No, not "teachers" --- SOME teachers. And I'm sure you're aware that not all teachers sleep with students.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        No, not "teachers" --- SOME teachers. And I'm sure you're aware that not all teachers sleep with students.
                        Of course, but there are plenty of bad apples out there, enough that I don't want to give them all carte blanche to pack heat in close quarters with kids.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          Of course, but there are plenty of bad apples out there, enough that I don't want to give them all carte blanche to pack heat in close quarters with kids.
                          Which is why I had said....

                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          In my case, it would only be those teachers who wanted to, were qualified, and trained.... like the coach who was also "security" whose only 'weapon' was his body.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            How many teachers get arrested each year for sleeping with students? (Quite a few. Any time someone talks about sexual abuse in the church, there will be a cavalcade of people pointing out that the public school system is worse anyway.) This board usually points out rightly how many bad apples there are in the education system... until it comes to the topic of guns, then somehow teachers can be trusted.
                            While I have some misgivings about allowing teachers to be armed, there appears to be some misconceptions about what that would entail. For some reason it seems that many think that a couple of teachers will be picked at random and be told to arm themselves or that any teacher with a CCW permit will be allowed to walk around packing heat on school grounds. From what I've seen from proposals the teachers selected will have gone through rigorous background screening, testing and training. And the firearms will be locked in a desk or something rather than the teacher walking around all the time with a concealed weapon ready to draw.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              While I have some misgivings about allowing teachers to be armed, there appears to be some misconceptions about what that would entail. For some reason it seems that many think that a couple of teachers will be picked at random and be told to arm themselves or that any teacher with a CCW permit will be allowed to walk around packing heat on school grounds. From what I've seen from proposals the teachers selected will have gone through rigorous background screening, testing and training. And the firearms will be locked in a desk or something rather than the teacher walking around all the time with a concealed weapon ready to draw.
                              Rigorous background screening, testing, and training is required just to get into the profession. Yearly fingerprinting at the sheriff's office (out of the teacher's own pockets), extensive background checks, multiple levels of testing and observation... (As I learned from when I tried to break in some years ago). This doesn't do a very good job at keeping out the bad apples, at all. I doubt anybody who already got through all those levels would have any problems jumping through just another hoop.
                              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                While I have some misgivings about allowing teachers to be armed, there appears to be some misconceptions about what that would entail. For some reason it seems that many think that a couple of teachers will be picked at random and be told to arm themselves or that any teacher with a CCW permit will be allowed to walk around packing heat on school grounds. From what I've seen from proposals the teachers selected will have gone through rigorous background screening, testing and training. And the firearms will be locked in a desk or something rather than the teacher walking around all the time with a concealed weapon ready to draw.
                                That's certainly one of the more common scenarios. To just declare that it's insane and should be "off the table" isn't considering all options available.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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