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    New member question about philosophy

    Hello. This is my first post of Theologyweb.com

    I have a question about philosophy that I have thought about for a very very long time, and was wondering if I could get some insight here:

    It deals with the nature of God, or rather the necessity of God's existence:

    First, does not the most extreme atheist and the most extreme theist begin the same basic logic? The axiom of self existence? By that I mean, SOMETHING existed, whether that was God (in whatever religious garb), or the universe itself.

    If the big bang is asserted, then that condensed ball of matter was simply just there, self existent. If God exists, then he too was self existant (unless you want to assert a self existent infinite regression).

    Thus, God (in whatever form), or the Universe (in whatever form) simply self exists.

    So the atheist and the theist begin with the pre-supposition of self-existence.

    Is this correct in saying this?

    I would ask that some of you here on this forum provide some insight into this before I continue with the other parts of this question.

    Thank you so much.

    Machinist
    Last edited by Machinist; 02-17-2018 at 12:46 PM.

  2. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Welcome, Machinist....

    Not quite ready to get into anything this deep this morning, but I wanted to say hello.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    welcome Machinist.

    I think it makes more sense to believe a self-existent God created the universe than believing a ball of condensed matter self-existed for eternity then somehow "decided" to explode into the universe. Why didn't it just stay a ball of condensed matter? In fact there was no time before the big bang so how did it start to expand?

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    To Cowpoke,

    Hello to you sir. No rush. Have some coffee and sit in the morning sun a spell.
    Last edited by Machinist; 02-17-2018 at 02:06 PM.

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    To Sparko:

    Thanks. Whether one is more silly than the other, do they both rest upon an axiom of self-existence? That was my initial question. A ball of goo talking to itself one day while bored and decided to express itself is quite a funny cartoon. But, still, somehow, at odds with all western binary logic, self-existent. Is this correct? I mean no one, no entity created it, or put it there. It was like God, in that it simply was. That is the way it seems to me.

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    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machinist View Post
    Hello. This is my first post of Theologyweb.com

    I have a question about philosophy that I have thought about for a very very long time, and was wondering if I could get some insight here:

    It deals with the nature of God, or rather the necessity of God's existence:

    First, does not the most extreme atheist and the most extreme theist begin the same basic logic? The axiom of self existence? By that I mean, SOMETHING existed, whether that was God (in whatever religious garb), or the universe itself.

    If the big bang is asserted, then that condensed ball of matter was simply just there, self existent. If God exists, then he too was self existant (unless you want to assert a self existent infinite regression).

    Thus, God (in whatever form), or the Universe (in whatever form) simply self exists.

    So the atheist and the theist begin with the pre-supposition of self-existence.

    Is this correct in saying this?

    I would ask that some of you here on this forum provide some insight into this before I continue with the other parts of this question.

    Thank you so much.

    Machinist
    I agree that some sort of self existence is accepted by both sides. This has been discussed to some degree here.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Basically religion relies on God being self-existent and eternal.

    Science either has to rely a self-existent eternal universe or infinite regression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machinist View Post
    To Cowpoke,

    Hello to you sir. No rush. Have some coffee and sit in the morning sun a spell.
    We haven't seen much of the sun in a couple weeks, which is pretty rare for my part of Texas.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machinist View Post
    Hello. This is my first post of Theologyweb.com

    I have a question about philosophy that I have thought about for a very very long time, and was wondering if I could get some insight here:

    It deals with the nature of God, or rather the necessity of God's existence:

    First, does not the most extreme atheist and the most extreme theist begin the same basic logic? The axiom of self existence? By that I mean, SOMETHING existed, whether that was God (in whatever religious garb), or the universe itself.

    If the big bang is asserted, then that condensed ball of matter was simply just there, self existent. If God exists, then he too was self existant (unless you want to assert a self existent infinite regression).

    Thus, God (in whatever form), or the Universe (in whatever form) simply self exists.

    So the atheist and the theist begin with the pre-supposition of self-existence.

    Is this correct in saying this?

    I would ask that some of you here on this forum provide some insight into this before I continue with the other parts of this question.

    Thank you so much.

    Machinist
    I have an definitive opinion on God's existence. He is the uncaused Existence. Uncaused existence needs no God and has no God. Existence needs no proofs. He is the basis for all truth - all reality.
    Last edited by 37818; 02-17-2018 at 02:36 PM.
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    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machinist View Post
    Is this correct in saying this?

    I would ask that some of you here on this forum provide some insight into this before I continue with the other parts of this question.

    Machinist
    Yes, I think most here would agree. Now where do we go?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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