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Thread: New member question about philosophy

  1. #121
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Element, why do you encourage his insanity by responding?
    Honestly I don't know. Probably because I am stubborn.

    However, I also find it intriguing that someone can be so blind and ignorant without realizing it.

    I will stop now as I fear that I am annoying the crap out of everyone else.

  2. #122
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by element771 View Post
    Honestly I don't know. Probably because I am stubborn.

    However, I also find it intriguing that someone can be so blind and ignorant without realizing it.

    I will stop now as I fear that I am annoying the crap out of everyone else.
    Yeah, I know, listening to Shuny has the same kind of sick fascination as seeing a car accident. For a moment you are stunned into unbelief of what is happening.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  3. #123
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Element, why do you encourage his insanity by responding?
    It chimes in with your religious agenda. No insanity here.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  4. #124
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by element771 View Post
    You realize that possible and likely are two different things correct.

    I said it is possible.
    Actually, by the fact that there is no objective verifiable evidence that could justify the conclusion that our physical existence and natural laws are eternal or not you would have to justify your ambiguous use of 'likely' based on some other standard other than the evidence or science.

    It demonstrates your lack thought and the ability to adequately communicate them which speaks to the issue at hand.
    No it demonstrates your continued to raze the fog index of our disagreements with fallacies such as: Playing grammar Nazi.

    Ad Hominem (Personal Attack or Attacking the Person)

    The fallacy of responding to an opponent's argument by changing the subject to the person who gave the subject, introducing the false assumption that a person of this sort cannot offer an argument worth considering. One can deflect attention from the arguer's position by shifting to discussion of the arguer's personality, character, associates, motives, intentions, qualifications, and so on.

    . . . and this questionable behavior continues:

    Quote Originally Posted by Element771
    However, I also find it intriguing that someone can be so blind and ignorant without realizing it.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 06-01-2018 at 06:50 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  5. #125
    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machinist View Post
    So something, rather than nothing exists, is self existent and is uncaused. The idea that a self existent God, or a self existent Universe (in whatever form), as illogical as it may be, by necessity must be.

    I haven't had time to begin the next part of my question, but plan to work on it later on this evening. Thank you to all contributors.
    The God Who is self-existent, is not at all comparable to a self-existent universe. Because:
    1. God is Unique and Incomparable - nothing can be compared to God, certainly not the universe, because
    2. the universe is changing, subject to corruption; whereas God is Changeless; this is not Divine stagnation, but Divine fullness of Being.

    St Thomas Aquinas, On the Eternity of the World: https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/basi...s-eternity.asp

    What is illogical about the One (not “a”) self-existent God ?

  6. #126
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
    The God Who is self-existent, is not at all comparable to a self-existent universe. Because:
    1. God is Unique and Incomparable - nothing can be compared to God, certainly not the universe, because
    2. the universe is changing, subject to corruption; whereas God is Changeless; this is not Divine stagnation, but Divine fullness of Being.

    St Thomas Aquinas, On the Eternity of the World: https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/basi...s-eternity.asp

    What is illogical about the One (not “a”) self-existent God ?
    An unchanging creator is a contradiction in terms. He's either unchanging, or he creates!

  7. #127
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    An unchanging creator is a contradiction in terms. He's either unchanging, or he creates!
    No Jim, unchanging means that 1: His moral character does not change, 2:He is not subject to corruption.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  8. #128
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    No Jim, unchanging means that 1: His moral character does not change, 2:He is not subject to corruption.
    No seer, unchanging means unchanging, static, not just in character, but in all aspects of being, and if a thing can not change, it's a contradiction to claim it can act, or create. An eternal universe differs in that it suggests itself to be a substance of change.

  9. #129
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    No seer, unchanging means unchanging, static, not just in character, but in all aspects of being, and if a thing can not change, it's a contradiction to claim it can act, or create. An eternal universe differs in that it suggests itself to be a substance of change.
    Jim, this is what RJ said:the universe is changing, subject to corruption; whereas God is Changeless; this is not Divine stagnation, but Divine fullness of Being.

    He is comparing a universe that is subject to corruption, change through corruption. Where God is not changeable in that sense. And I would add that His moral character is also immutable.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  10. #130
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Jim, this is what RJ said:the universe is changing, subject to corruption; whereas God is Changeless; this is not Divine stagnation, but Divine fullness of Being.

    He is comparing a universe that is subject to corruption, change through corruption. Where God is not changeable in that sense. And I would add that His moral character is also immutable.
    So you are saying that an infinite being, or entity, can infinitely act?

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