Originally posted by Roy
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Originally posted by Roy View PostThat's despicable, Sparko.
It wasn't me that introduced the gun/knife comparison. It wasn't me that claimed other means were just as deadly. If you wanted to complain about it being treated as "just a numbers game" then you should have objected then, and not cited numbers yourself.
You are getting into the habit of objecting only to the behaviour and challenging only the claims of your ideological opponents while giving yourself and your ideological colleagues a free pass - even when it is you and your colleagues who are making the false and/or callous statements and your opponents are merely responding in kind.
That's hypocrisy, Sparko.
And I just chose specifically incidents in schools. If I wanted to go with mass deaths not committed by guns I could have mentioned 9/11, the Oklahama federal building, and others that far outnumber the deaths in a mass shooting.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostYou are the one who is comparing number of deaths in the incidents, Roy, not me.The problem isn't the weapon, it the person. Guns are tools, just like knives, or cars, or poison. If you remove access to guns they will use other means to inflict harm.And I just chose specifically incidents in schools. If I wanted to go with mass deaths not committed by guns I could have mentioned 9/11, the Oklahama federal building, and others that far outnumber the deaths in a mass shooting.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostYou are the one who is comparing number of deaths in the incidents, Roy, not me. I was just showing that there are mass attacks, in schools, even when there are no guns involved.
Roy then challenged MM by asking for actual evidence showing the perpetrator would likely have harmed that many people with a knife. So Roy certainly did not start it. Rather unfair approach to blame Roy for asking MM to support his claims with actual evidence. And as we have seen MM has now started his usual playing games instead of providing it."Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.
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Originally posted by Roy View PostNo, Sparko, I'm responding to the person pretending the numbers are comparable.Of course. But does the availability of guns increase their ability to inflict harm? Or does it not? So you would argue that guns do not contribute to the level of harm inflicted by comparing an incident involving a lone perpetrator to incidents executed by groups.
And the only permanent solution is when Jesus comes back.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post[...] You can try to nitpick away any comparisons you want by comparing the number of perpetrators, or number of deaths, or type of weapon to no avail. The fact remains that guns don't kill people, people kill people, using whatever is at hand.[...]
BTW: If "whatever is at hand" can be used instead of a gun then why are you so concerned about the thought of not being allowed to have one?"Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostAnd the only permanent solution is when Jesus comes back."Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.
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How about this example from China? Not a school but mass slaying non the less.
https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world...ack/index.html ETA:NVM, this is the same example as it was multiple attackers. Sorry!Last edited by Littlejoe; 02-19-2018, 11:56 AM."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Charles View PostI think you missed the point again. We were not discussing whether people kill people or not. We were discussing whether it would be harder for people to kill people if they did not have acces to guns. How do you know beforehand that it is to no avail?
BTW: If "whatever is at hand" can be used instead of a gun then why are you so concerned about the thought of not being allowed to have one?
I am concerned because for law-abiding citizens, owning guns is about sporting, hunting, and self-defense. Taking guns away from them doesn't take them away from criminals.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostWhether one believes Jesus will return or not seems rather irrelevant when discussing how to reduce the number of people being killed.
Romans 1:29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostBecause it is to no avail in China which I posted links to, or in Britain which has just had three attacks using cars last year. Or Boston where they used a bomb, or any number of other mass attacks I can name.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostWhat? Do you think I am planning on doing a mass attack or something? That is an idiotic comment.
I am concerned because for law-abiding citizens, owning guns is about sporting, hunting, and self-defense. Taking guns away from them doesn't take them away from criminals."Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIt is completely relevant. People need Jesus in their heart instead of hate.
Romans 1:29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostSo you did join the number game? Are you willing to discuss it in that context? It seems you are not, or that you are speaking with two tongues.
Of course it is not an idiotic comment and you showed so yourself by pointing to self-defense. If a gun is not more effective than "whatever is at hand" why do you need it for self-defense? Why not go for "whatever is at hand" in your self-defense?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThe fact remains that guns don't kill people, people kill people, using whatever is at hand. You are not going to solve mass killings by taking away guns. You will just shift the methods used.
Next time some nutter slaughters a dozen schoolchildren - and there will be a next time, likely within a few months of now - remember that without your help he'd only have got three.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostNext time some nutter slaughters a dozen schoolchildren - and there will be a next time, likely within a few months of now - remember that without your help he'd only have got three.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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