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Latest US Presidential Rankings

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
    Heck, even with the benefit of hindsight, if we were to rate Lincoln completely on his first 2 years after taking office, there's very little to praise. At that point, his main accomplishment was getting a lot of people killed in the war. He did issue the Emancipation Proclamation, but the document at that time was nearly worthless (it gained considerable teeth when the North started winning the war, but prior to that was little more than a piece of feel-good propaganda). Pretty much everything he gets praised for occurred afterwards.
    Imagine how Lincoln would be remembered if the Union had lost the war, which they very nearly did.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
      Heck, even with the benefit of hindsight, if we were to rate Lincoln completely on his first 2 years after taking office, there's very little to praise. At that point, his main accomplishment was getting a lot of people killed in the war. He did issue the Emancipation Proclamation, but the document at that time was nearly worthless (it gained considerable teeth when the North started winning the war, but prior to that was little more than a piece of feel-good propaganda). Pretty much everything he gets praised for occurred afterwards.
      Lincoln’s assassination and the aftermath is pretty much what put him on the top of the pile. Right up to the day of his death, he was under attack from both democrats and republicans. Truman is another example of a president rating lower while in office vs decades later. The same is true in the opposite, where a president rated higher while in office vs years later. The point is history might love Trump and despise Obama or the opposite can happen to. Which is why it’s pretty silly for us to care what a bunch of disconnected elitist think.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Imagine how Lincoln would be remembered if the Union had lost the war, which they very nearly did.
        Hrm, that's actually a very interesting question. I'm going to assume that Lincoln wasn't re-elected in this scenario, as some major Northern victories (most especially Sherman's capture of Atlanta) were critical to his win, so in order for the Union to lose, those victories couldn't have happened, and without them Lincoln would not be re-elected.

        My guess is that for a while people would have been very harsh on Lincoln, but eventually he would be seen as a president who was just okay, but might have been a lot better had he not got stuck cleaning up the mess that his predecessor left him while being saddled with generals who weren't up to the job. Though admittedly, a lot could depend on how this alternate history ended up going and what the resultant attitudes towards the Civil War itself would have been.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          I suspect Obama is not going to fare well in the history books written 50- to 100-years from now when people are able to make an honest assessment of his administration.
          I think it’s impossible to make such a determination right now. As what is secret now becomes public knowledge or is seen through the eye of history, who knows.
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
            Hrm, that's actually a very interesting question. I'm going to assume that Lincoln wasn't re-elected in this scenario, as some major Northern victories (most especially Sherman's capture of Atlanta) were critical to his win, so in order for the Union to lose, those victories couldn't have happened, and without them Lincoln would not be re-elected.

            My guess is that for a while people would have been very harsh on Lincoln, but eventually he would be seen as a president who was just okay, but might have been a lot better had he not got stuck cleaning up the mess that his predecessor left him while being saddled with generals who weren't up to the job. Though admittedly, a lot could depend on how this alternate history ended up going and what the resultant attitudes towards the Civil War itself would have been.
            Sounds about right. I’d be curious to learn what kind of role the assassination played on his popularity too.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              In this survey, Obama has reached the top-10, and is in 8th place
              Affirmative Action President in top 10?

              For-Immigrants Reagan
              DACA, tick tock!
              Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                Sounds about right. I’d be curious to learn what kind of role the assassination played on his popularity too.
                In my view, massive. He avoided the Reconstruction quagmire that swallowed most of Andrew Johnson's presidency. Although Lincoln would've been the President who oversaw the Union's preservation, Radical Republicans wanted the South to pay, something Lincoln didn't agree with.

                I tend to take these rankings with an appropriate dose of salt. I'm a professional historian in my real life (PhD student in history), but that doesn't make me vaguely qualified to commentate on something like Martin Van Buren's presidency vs. Lyndon Johnson's. Believe it or not, you need to have pretty expansive knowledge to intelligently commentate on presidential rankings, something I'm certain the surveyed group doesn't.

                I'd like to know how many members comprise the surveyed group, as well. US News and World Report ranks graduate programs based on a survey with 19% response rate.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by psstein View Post
                  I'm a professional historian in my real life (PhD student in history), but that doesn't make me vaguely qualified to commentate on something like Martin Van Buren's presidency vs. Lyndon Johnson's.
                  I'm going to guess your historical expertise aren't in the US presidencies, and hence that you are not a member of the "Presidents and Executive Politics" subgroup of the American Political Science Association, which was the group surveyed. They didn't just survey random historians who weren't experts on the topic.

                  you need to have pretty expansive knowledge to intelligently commentate on presidential rankings, something I'm certain the surveyed group doesn't.
                  You have weird certainties.

                  I'd like to know how many members comprise the surveyed group, as well. US News and World Report ranks graduate programs based on a survey with 19% response rate.
                  Their membership count appears to be likely in the 200-300 range. 170 people responded to the survey, suggesting a response rate somewhere in the 50%-100% range.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    I'm going to guess your historical expertise aren't in the US presidencies, and hence that you are not a member of the "Presidents and Executive Politics" subgroup of the American Political Science Association, which was the group surveyed. They didn't just survey random historians who weren't experts on the topic.
                    No, I specialize in early modern Europe. Other surveys ask dubiously qualified people (PhD in Media Studies is one of my favorites).

                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    You have weird certainties.
                    No, that's pretty much a function of any field these days. Hyperspecialization is the name of the game: it's extremely rare to have published detailed work about Washington, Henry Clay, Andrew Johnson, McKinley, Wilson, FDR, Nixon, Clinton, and Obama. One would have to be versed in quite a lot of material.

                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    Their membership count appears to be likely in the 200-300 range. 170 people responded to the survey, suggesting a response rate somewhere in the 50%-100% range.
                    It's definitely not 100%. The organization seems to have problems knowing how many people actually are enrolled.

                    Comment

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