Originally posted by Terraceth
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Originally posted by Terraceth View PostHeck, even with the benefit of hindsight, if we were to rate Lincoln completely on his first 2 years after taking office, there's very little to praise. At that point, his main accomplishment was getting a lot of people killed in the war. He did issue the Emancipation Proclamation, but the document at that time was nearly worthless (it gained considerable teeth when the North started winning the war, but prior to that was little more than a piece of feel-good propaganda). Pretty much everything he gets praised for occurred afterwards."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostImagine how Lincoln would be remembered if the Union had lost the war, which they very nearly did.
My guess is that for a while people would have been very harsh on Lincoln, but eventually he would be seen as a president who was just okay, but might have been a lot better had he not got stuck cleaning up the mess that his predecessor left him while being saddled with generals who weren't up to the job. Though admittedly, a lot could depend on how this alternate history ended up going and what the resultant attitudes towards the Civil War itself would have been.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI suspect Obama is not going to fare well in the history books written 50- to 100-years from now when people are able to make an honest assessment of his administration."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Terraceth View PostHrm, that's actually a very interesting question. I'm going to assume that Lincoln wasn't re-elected in this scenario, as some major Northern victories (most especially Sherman's capture of Atlanta) were critical to his win, so in order for the Union to lose, those victories couldn't have happened, and without them Lincoln would not be re-elected.
My guess is that for a while people would have been very harsh on Lincoln, but eventually he would be seen as a president who was just okay, but might have been a lot better had he not got stuck cleaning up the mess that his predecessor left him while being saddled with generals who weren't up to the job. Though admittedly, a lot could depend on how this alternate history ended up going and what the resultant attitudes towards the Civil War itself would have been."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostSounds about right. I’d be curious to learn what kind of role the assassination played on his popularity too.
I tend to take these rankings with an appropriate dose of salt. I'm a professional historian in my real life (PhD student in history), but that doesn't make me vaguely qualified to commentate on something like Martin Van Buren's presidency vs. Lyndon Johnson's. Believe it or not, you need to have pretty expansive knowledge to intelligently commentate on presidential rankings, something I'm certain the surveyed group doesn't.
I'd like to know how many members comprise the surveyed group, as well. US News and World Report ranks graduate programs based on a survey with 19% response rate.
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Originally posted by psstein View PostI'm a professional historian in my real life (PhD student in history), but that doesn't make me vaguely qualified to commentate on something like Martin Van Buren's presidency vs. Lyndon Johnson's.
you need to have pretty expansive knowledge to intelligently commentate on presidential rankings, something I'm certain the surveyed group doesn't.
I'd like to know how many members comprise the surveyed group, as well. US News and World Report ranks graduate programs based on a survey with 19% response rate."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI'm going to guess your historical expertise aren't in the US presidencies, and hence that you are not a member of the "Presidents and Executive Politics" subgroup of the American Political Science Association, which was the group surveyed. They didn't just survey random historians who weren't experts on the topic.
Originally posted by Starlight View PostYou have weird certainties.
Originally posted by Starlight View PostTheir membership count appears to be likely in the 200-300 range. 170 people responded to the survey, suggesting a response rate somewhere in the 50%-100% range.
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