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Thread: An infinite series of finite causes.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    An infinite series of finite causes.

    In the classical cosmological argument it disallows an infinite series of cause and effect of a never ending series of beginnings and endings with no first beginning.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

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    tWebber mattbballman31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    In the classical cosmological argument it disallows an infinite series of cause and effect of a never ending series of beginnings and endings with no first beginning.
    Sounds good to me! The nature of 'disallow' is that of metaphysical possibility. Cosmological arguments are a family of arguments that have this idea as sort of a common feature. Another important feature of these types of arguments is that they're 'a priori', meaning that if sound, then, in principle, no future scientific discovery will ever overturn it. A substantial minority of physicists are actually starting to take such philosophical arguments seriously, and using their conclusions to guide their research.

    But be prepared for Shuny to come in with some mystically unintelligible koan that's off the topic, with an irrelevant block-quote to boot.
    Many and painful are the researches sometimes necessary to be made, for settling points of [this] kind. Pertness and ignorance may ask a question in three lines, which it will cost learning and ingenuity thirty pages to answer. When this is done, the same question shall be triumphantly asked again the next year, as if nothing had ever been written upon the subject.
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  3. Amen MaxVel amen'd this post.
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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Two facts. Our current scientific knowledge and evidence cannot support possibility of an infinite past with no beginning. And theologically it is not supported (Genesis 1:1; Psalm 102:25-26; Revelation 20:11; Revelation 21:1).

    Now even if, those two facts were not true, an infinite series of cause and effect with no first cause - there would have to be an uncaused existence - and an uncaused cause (reason) for such an eternal event (series).

    Yet the theological fact (being true) disallows such a series to explain our known universe.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    In the classical cosmological argument it disallows an infinite series of cause and effect of a never ending series of beginnings and endings with no first beginning.

    Now even if, those two facts were not true, an infinite series of cause and effect with no first cause - there would have to be an uncaused existence - and an uncaused cause (reason) for such an eternal event (series).

    Yet the theological fact (being true) disallows such a series to explain our known universe.
    What are you calling classical cosmology?

    Contemporary Cosmology considers the physical existence as potentially infinite.

    Theological 'beliefs' are not facts, and they cannot be used to explain the known universe.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-21-2018 at 06:14 PM.
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  6. Amen Tassman amen'd this post.
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    tWebber mattbballman31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    What are you calling classical cosmology?

    Contemporary Cosmology considers the physical existence as potentially infinite.

    Theological 'beliefs' are not facts, and they cannot be used to explain the known universe.
    He didn't say 'classical cosmology, dummy. Your English-reading skills stink. He said 'classic cosmological . . ." Get the difference, dummy?

    Watch out 37818? Shuny is about to spit out his baseless talking points and go on a block-quote rampage!
    Many and painful are the researches sometimes necessary to be made, for settling points of [this] kind. Pertness and ignorance may ask a question in three lines, which it will cost learning and ingenuity thirty pages to answer. When this is done, the same question shall be triumphantly asked again the next year, as if nothing had ever been written upon the subject.
    George Horne

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattbballman31 View Post
    He didn't say 'classical cosmology, dummy. Your English-reading skills stink. He said 'classic cosmological . . ." Get the difference, dummy?

    Watch out 37818? Shuny is about to spit out his baseless talking points and go on a block-quote rampage!

    the classic cosmological argument would have to make certain cosmological assumptions. What are they? They would not based on science.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    tWebber mattbballman31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    the classic cosmological argument would have to make certain cosmological assumptions. What are they? They would not based on science.
    It depends on the cosmological argument. But that's beside the point. You asked 37818, "What are you calling classical cosmology?" He wasn't calling it anything. Nice swivel.

    And sometimes the a priori premises involved don't need to be based on science. Have you jumped on the scientism-bandwagon as well? (-_-)
    Many and painful are the researches sometimes necessary to be made, for settling points of [this] kind. Pertness and ignorance may ask a question in three lines, which it will cost learning and ingenuity thirty pages to answer. When this is done, the same question shall be triumphantly asked again the next year, as if nothing had ever been written upon the subject.
    George Horne

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    What are you calling classical cosmology?

    Contemporary Cosmology considers the physical existence as potentially infinite.

    Theological 'beliefs' are not facts, and they cannot be used to explain the known universe.
    Look up the cosmological argument for there being God.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    tWebber mattbballman31's Avatar
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    A gift for Shunya . . .



    Last edited by mattbballman31; 02-23-2018 at 01:00 AM.
    Many and painful are the researches sometimes necessary to be made, for settling points of [this] kind. Pertness and ignorance may ask a question in three lines, which it will cost learning and ingenuity thirty pages to answer. When this is done, the same question shall be triumphantly asked again the next year, as if nothing had ever been written upon the subject.
    George Horne

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    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Look up the cosmological argument for there being God.
    The argument from first cause (i.e. the cosmological argument) claims that the universe must have a cause, and that this cause is posited to be God. This is a classic Argument from Ignorance. There is no substantive evidence supporting the premise that universe must have a cause. This is an unverified assumption and especially specious given that contemporary physics considers that physical existence is possibly infinite.
    Last edited by Tassman; 02-23-2018 at 03:32 AM.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  13. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.

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