An infinite series of finite causes.

[Tassman]

Settled science...what is that?

It is science which is known with high certainty & confirmed by observations.

I need to go tell the evolutionary biologist in my department his research is already settled.

He should know that already. "It is overwhelmingly acknowledged by the scientific community that evolution and global climate change (GCC) are undeniably supported by physical evidence".

https://link.springer.com/article/10...052-014-0006-3

Bottom line is that you don’t accept current views on certain scientific topics because of your metaphysical worldview... just like they don’t.

The parallels between you and other science deniers speak volumes. Accept the data you like, discard the rest.

Nope! You’re projecting.

[JonathanL]

projecting

[seer]

I said the idea of gods is a human construct. I can certainly back up this claim. What you can’t “back up” is your notion that gods are anything more than human constructs.

Stop trying to turn it around Tass, you are being completely dishonest. Not only did you say that all gods are human constructs, but that no god had an independent reality. You know no such thing, neither can you back that up.

We don’t know that because it is at present an open question in science with many different hypotheses under consideration, e.g. Stephen Hawking's "no boundary" model posits that our universe is just one of infinitely many parallel universes.

Again there is no actual evidence for any of this and Hawking was moving to a position that the universe created itself out of nothing, the only requirement being the law of gravity.

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."
 
Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow, The Grand Design, 2010

The fact that an infinite, eternal universe contradicts your religious belief that the universe had a beginning and was created by God is irrelevant.

First of all that is just stupid, there is no evidence for an eternal universe, and that contradicts your atheism.

[element771]

It is science which is known with high certainty & confirmed by observations.

So the science in these areas is complete and therefore need no further study?

Nope! You’re projecting.

I am not the one cherrypicking scientific data to fit my worldview.

[JimL]

So the science in these areas is complete and therefore need no further study?

A high degree of certainty is not the same thing as absolute in science, but it is a high degree of certainty.

I am not the one cherrypicking scientific data to fit my worldview.

Like the science behind the magi following the star?

[element771]

Like the science behind the magi following the star?

Still haven't read it, have you?

Keep up that grand illusion of superiority, after all you really don't know any better.

The cognitive bias of illusory superiority derives from the metacognitive inability of low-ability persons to recognize their own ineptitude; without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their actual competence or incompetence.

[Tassman]

Stop trying to turn it around Tass, you are being completely dishonest. Not only did you say that all gods are human constructs, but that no god had an independent reality. You know no such thing, neither can you back that up.

Yes, gods are human constructs and do not have an independent reality; there's no good reason to think otherwise.

Again there is no actual evidence for any of this and Hawking was moving to a position that the universe created itself out of nothing, the only requirement being the law of gravity.

The non-eternal universe is not settled science; there are many eminent scientists who think otherwise for good reason.

First of all that is just stupid, there is no evidence for an eternal universe, and that contradicts your atheism.

The eternal universe remains an open scientific question and your resistance to it is not based upon scientific evidence but because it contradicts your ‘god-did-it’ religious beliefs.

[Tassman]

So the science in these areas is complete and therefore need no further study?

That’s not what I said. What’s commonly known as “settled science” is science which is known with high certainty & confirmed by observations, this as opposed to so-called cutting-edge science which is not.

I am not the one cherrypicking scientific data to fit my worldview.

It is not I resisting Evolution or Climate Change, because of their metaphysical or religious world view, it's you.

[seer]

Yes, gods are human constructs and do not have an independent reality; there's no good reason to think otherwise.

And there is no good reason to think that you know what you are talking about.

The non-eternal universe is not settled science; there are many eminent scientists who think otherwise for good reason.

Actually there is no good evidence to think that matter or energy are past eternal. But don't let me undermine your faith...

The eternal universe remains an open scientific question and your resistance to it is not based upon scientific evidence but because it contradicts your ‘god-did-it’ religious beliefs.

You can't have it both ways, there is not scientific evidence for eternal matter and energy - which you need to support your atheism.

[element771]

That’s not what I said. What’s commonly known as “settled science” is science which is known with high certainty & confirmed by observations, this as opposed to so-called cutting-edge science which is not.

Your subjective categorizations do not hold up. There is still cutting-edge science being done in both evolution and Climate Change.

You subjectively label cosmology as being "cutting-edge" because you don't like the current paradigm simply because it doesn't fit your worldview.

It is not I resisting Evolution or Climate Change, because of their metaphysical or religious world view, it's you.

WHAT!?!?

I accept both evolution and climate change.

Seriously, where do you get this stuff from?!?!

You are the only one cherrypicking here.

[Tassman]

And there is no good reason to think that you know what you are talking about.

The many thousands of gods throughout human history have been human constructs without an independent reality. AFAIK there are no exceptions.

Actually there is no good evidence to think that matter or energy are past eternal. But don't let me undermine your faith...

This topic continues to be matter still under investigation by physicists.

You can't have it both ways, there is not scientific evidence for eternal matter and energy

Science has not yet reached a consensus.

- which you need to support your atheism.

Lack of belief in gods all one needs to be an atheist. OTOH You as a theist need the universe to have a beginning in order to make your creator god relevant.

[Tassman]

Your subjective categorizations do not hold up. There is still cutting-edge science being done in both evolution and Climate Change.

Even the most established scientific theories are still subject to minor adjustments. But this doesn’t alter that fact that both Evolution and Climate Change are confirmed by observations and accepted by the vast majority of scientists with a high degree of certainty

You subjectively label cosmology as being "cutting-edge" because you don't like the current paradigm simply because it doesn't fit your worldview.

You theists can't resist the sly digs can you? One wonders why you feel the need.

WHAT!?!?

See above.

I accept both evolution and climate change.

Glad to hear it. You appeared to be defending those that don’t

Seriously, where do you get this stuff from?!?!

You are the only one cherrypicking here

[seer]

The many thousands of gods throughout human history have been human constructs without an independent reality. AFAIK there are no exceptions.

Again Tass, you are talking out your butt, you can't prove this.

This topic continues to be matter still under investigation by physicists.

Yes, you have faith...

Science has not yet reached a consensus.

More faith...

Lack of belief in gods all one needs to be an atheist. OTOH You as a theist need the universe to have a beginning in order to make your creator god relevant.

Well this universe does have a beginning, and if finite. But there is nothing in my belief system that says God could not have created a multi-verse, or even an infinite number of past universes. No Homer, you faith requires eternal matter and energy...

[element771]

You theists can't resist the sly digs can you? One wonders why you feel the need.

What dig did I take at you?

[shunyadragon]

What we do have evidence for Shuny is this universe, and that this universe is finite. That it began with the hot big bang. There is zero evidence that matter and energy are past eternal, even though your religion teaches that and you need to defend your religion.

Actually, seer, no, there is evidence of the nature of our universe and the observed expansion, and other properties related to Quantum Mechanics. The Big Bang hypothesis is based on this evidence. There are other possible hypothesis based on the same evidence such as: cyclic and Black Hole hypothesis for the origins of our universe, and the possible Multi-verse hypothesis.

But your own religion teaches that the very universe points to a creator, that we see his attributes in creation. Do I need to again quote from Bahá'í writings? http://bahaiteachings.org/signs-gods...-natural-world

My religion and my beliefs are not the issue. The issue is the honest evaluation of the science of physics and cosmology independent of any religious belief, yours nor mine.

And BTW there is no objective verifiable evidence that all gods are merely human constructs.

This does not make sense.