Announcement

Collapse

General Theistics 101 Guidelines

This area is open for nontheists and theists to interact on issues of theism and faith in a civilized manner. We ask that nontheist participation respect the theistic views of others and not seek to undermine theism in general, or advocate for nontheism. Such posts are more suited for and allowable in Apologetics 301 with very little restriction.

The moderators of this area are given great discretion to determine if a particular thread or comment would more appropriately belong in another forum area.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Opinions on Billy Graham

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    And no scandal of any kind, whether it be financial, sexual[1] or whatever. He always insisted that his crusades were publicly audited so as to avoid even a hint of impropriety

    1. He's responsible for the Billy Graham rule
    That is not a rule I endorse, or find even mildly acceptable. It is a horrendous statement on male/female relationships, and just another form of objectifying women, IMO
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      The OP said to be respectful, your trolling has been reported. Don't blame Jed this time.
      No, actually the OP does not say that, and neither am I trolling. It's my honest opinion that they are frauds, both Billy and his son. And btw if there were a rule against trolling, you'd have to have banned yourself a long time ago, Sparko.

      Comment


      • #33
        Edited by a Moderator

        Moderator Notice

        You may have read the OP which asked for things to be stated respectfully. You may have disagreements but plain unfounded disrespect is not acceptable

        ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
        Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Psychotherapy Room unless told otherwise.

        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Yeah, I get ya. My problem with his success is that his writing and speaking fees is how he dupes the gullible.
          There is a huge difference between a person that conveys a message, by book and word, that people want to hear and want to pay for, and a man who tells people that they have to donate because god wants them to have a jet or is threatening to "take them to heaven."

          If I reject B.G. for being successful preaching a message I don't happen to agree with, then I have to reject every self-help expert, every motivational speaker, and every post-career politician that ever existed. When someone sets out to dube the gullible, they deserve our disdain. When they are just preaching something they believe in that you do not happen to agree with, IMO, they do not.

          I have to admit I am MORE impressed by men who preach this message and maintain a humble lifestyle (e.g., Ghandi, M.L.K., Mandela, etc.). But I do not begrudge someone their success.
          Last edited by carpedm9587; 02-21-2018, 03:16 PM.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by JimL View Post
            No, actually the OP does not say that, and neither am I trolling. It's my honest opinion that they are frauds, both Billy and his son. And btw if there were a rule against trolling, you'd have to have banned yourself a long time ago, Sparko.
            Look here... I'll bold the relative portion.

            Originally posted by simplicio View Post
            A truly great man has moved on.

            I am curious, what are your view on Graham? I think that it can be phrased respectfully, even if one does disagree.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              That is not a rule I endorse, or find even mildly acceptable. It is a horrendous statement on male/female relationships, and just another form of objectifying women, IMO
              And yet if other men had followed that rule recently there would be a lot fewer scandals in Hollywood and Congress. I think it is actually respectful to one's wife not objectifying. How is is objectifying?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Look here... I'll bold the relative portion.
                Yes, I can read. He say's I think it can be phrased respectfully. I think it can be phrased respectively as well, but that's not a request that we necessarily do so. And since when is not following such a request against the rules?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  And yet if other men had followed that rule recently there would be a lot fewer scandals in Hollywood and Congress. I think it is actually respectful to one's wife not objectifying. How is is objectifying?
                  Funny enough, the only time I've ever heard the rule condemned is from men....

                  (anecdotal, certainly, but I find it interesting)
                  I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    And yet if other men had followed that rule recently there would be a lot fewer scandals in Hollywood and Congress. I think it is actually respectful to one's wife not objectifying. How is is objectifying?
                    The man is basically saying, "Gee, I cannot be around a woman who's not my wife! What would people think?" That makes the other women basically sexual objects that, apparently, the person either cannot control themselves around, or thinks other people will think they cannot control themselves around.

                    In a business - it means a male boss cannot have a personnel review meeting with female subordinates, for no other reason than "they're female."

                    IMO, it's a ridiculous, and potentially harmful rule. I don't find it uplifting in the least. I find it degrading to the women is objectifies, and a pretty sad commentary on the people who feel they need to follow it.
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      The man is basically saying, "Gee, I cannot be around a woman who's not my wife! What would people think?" That makes the other women basically sexual objects that, apparently, the person either cannot control themselves around, or thinks other people will think they cannot control themselves around.

                      In a business - it means a male boss cannot have a personnel review meeting with female subordinates, for no other reason than "they're female."

                      IMO, it's a ridiculous, and potentially harmful rule. I don't find it uplifting in the least. I find it degrading to the women is objectifies, and a pretty sad commentary on the people who feel they need to follow it.
                      Or the man could be saying, "I cannot be around a woman who's not my wife, because then the barest possibility of temptation/scandal is avoided."

                      Why view it so uncharitably?
                      I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                        Funny enough, the only time I've ever heard the rule condemned is from men....

                        (anecdotal, certainly, but I find it interesting)
                        Then you have not been listening.

                        https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...men/312576002/

                        http://www.konbini.com/us/lifestyle/...oure-an-idiot/

                        https://www.newyorker.com/culture/ji...men-from-power

                        I'll also be happy to put you in touch with my wife, every single one of her friends, every woman friend I have, and every woman in my family. The tally, thus far, is 100% AGAINST the Graham/Pence rule.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          That is not a rule I endorse, or find even mildly acceptable. It is a horrendous statement on male/female relationships, and just another form of objectifying women, IMO
                          What do you actually see wrong with it?

                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          The man is basically saying, "Gee, I cannot be around a woman who's not my wife! What would people think?" That makes the other women basically sexual objects that, apparently, the person either cannot control themselves around, or thinks other people will think they cannot control themselves around.
                          This is not at all what is says. It says that a man should no go places alone with another woman. And what is wrong with avoiding the appearance of evil?
                          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            Then you have not been listening.

                            https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...men/312576002/

                            http://www.konbini.com/us/lifestyle/...oure-an-idiot/

                            https://www.newyorker.com/culture/ji...men-from-power

                            I'll also be happy to put you in touch with my wife, every single one of her friends, every woman friend I have, and every woman in my family. The tally, thus far, is 100% AGAINST the Graham/Pence rule.
                            Ok, sure I haven't been listening. I was just offering some anecdotal experience (like you just did).
                            I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                              Or the man could be saying, "I cannot be around a woman who's not my wife, because then the barest possibility of temptation/scandal is avoided."

                              Why view it so uncharitably?
                              So you said the same thing - in gentler words. Essentially, the man is either saying, "I can't be with a woman who is not my wife because I may not behave appropriately." or "I cannot be with a woman who is not my wife because others might suspect I am not behaving appropriately." And it's essentially about sex, which means women are being objectified as sexual objects. I find the rule...well...to be honest, I find it more than a little

                              In short, if you need the rule - it might be time to evaluate just how much you have managed to mature as an adult.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                                This is not at all what is says. It says that a man should no go places alone with another woman. And what is wrong with avoiding the appearance of evil?
                                I bet he hates men who open car doors for their wives!


                                (being facetious, kinda, but maybe not)
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

                                widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                                Working...
                                X