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How Many of the "Spree Shooters" Came from Broken Homes?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post
    I was being facetious.
    At least after you realized that you wouldn't have anyone to do the cooking and shovel the sidewalk/driveway.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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    • #17
      Originally posted by guacamole View Post
      For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

      Why don't we just get rid of all males. That would solve the problem once and for all.



      It might help.
      I'm willing to bet that she's aware of sarcasm tags and likely did not feel it was necessary.

      Originally posted by guacamole View Post
      In any case, it hides a good point. The (overwhelming?) majority of spree-killers are males.
      And hence we can call it a "guy thing" that "women won't understand" therefore they cannot by definition have a valid opinion on the matter. We don't need no "wymynsplaining"





























      Up for you to figurate if the above shoulda had sarcasm tags

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        I'm willing to bet that she's aware of sarcasm tags and likely did not feel it was necessary.
        It clearly wasn't, and she no doubt is.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          At least after you realized that you wouldn't have anyone to do the cooking and shovel the sidewalk/driveway.
          I did that stuff for decades all by myself. Figure I could do it again.



          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by mossrose View Post
            I was being facetious.
            I knew that - but it isn't an entirely invalid point. Just like no guns cannot equal no violence, no guys cannot equal no one going on a rampage. That should NEVER mean not looking at the relationships and how to positively impact them. Fewer disaffected males would very likely result in fewer rampages - since killing them all isn't an option, maybe we could look at what's causing the disconnect? Since eliminating gun existence isn't an option () maybe we should look at who should - and should not - be allowed to handle them and when and how.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Any of the shooters involved in the mass shootings - could have made that more clear, but this was from a related subject where somebody (don't remember who) referred to the school shooters (and others) as "spree shooters".
              There are way too many shootings that fall under 'mass' but would not be well described by 'spree'. Few school shootings really fall into that category - spree killers are usually older, disaffected and highly mobile - and have little or no ability/desire to inhibit themselves. Spree killers are often disaffected and frequently (if they live long enough to get diagnosed) sociopathic. Mass killings are often premeditated with days or weeks of planning - spree killings aren't usually premeditated by more than a few minutes.
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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              • #22
                FWIW, a school shooter we had 20 years ago in Oregon (Kinkel) did not come from a broken home. In fact, he killed his parents before heading to school and shooting. By all accounts they were loving parents (his sister is around to attest to this)

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Celebrian View Post
                  FWIW, a school shooter we had 20 years ago in Oregon (Kinkel) did not come from a broken home. In fact, he killed his parents before heading to school and shooting. By all accounts they were loving parents (his sister is around to attest to this)
                  That's been seen in a number of such shootings (although the parental murder is rare).
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

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                  • #24
                    This is the kind of thing for which I was looking

                    Of the 27 Deadliest Mass Shooters, 26 of Them Had One Thing in Common

                    Suzanne Venker’s recent opinion piece on FoxNews is very, very important, because she points out that almost all of the most recent deadly mass shooters have one thing in common: fatherlessness.

                    She begins by pointing out a tweet after the terrible shooting in Florida last week. Actor and comedian Michael Ian Black began a series of tweets in this way, “Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken.”

                    Venker goes on to describe how his “tweet storm” strayed from the truth:
                    Unfortunately, Black quickly veered off course. “Men don’t have the language to understand masculinity as anything other than some version of a caveman because no language exists…The language of masculinity is hopelessly entwined with sexuality, and the language of sexuality in hopelessly entwined with power, agency, and self-worth…To step outside those norms is to take a risk most of us are afraid to take. As a result, a lot of guys spend their lives terrified…We’re terrified of being viewed as something other than men. We know ourselves to be men, but don’t know how to be our whole selves. A lot of us (me included) either shut off or experience deep shame or rage. Or all three. Again: men are terrified.”

                    Mr. Black is not the first to attack masculinity and suggest it’s at the root of all evil. Indeed, the phrase ‘toxic masculinity’ has become boilerplate language in America.

                    It’s not a hard sell, either. After all, it is boys and men who are typically to blame for violent acts of aggression. Ergo, testosterone—the defining hormone of masculinity—must be to blame. But testosterone has been around forever. School shootings have not.

                    Mr. Black is correct that boys are broken. But they’re not broken as a result of being cavemen who haven’t “evolved” the way women have. They’re broken for another reason.

                    They are fatherless.

                    Yes, yes, and a thousand times yes.

                    Fatherlessness is a serious problem. America’s boys have been under stress for decades. It’s not toxic masculinity hurting them, it’s the fact that when they come home there are no fathers there. Plain and simple. Add that to a bunch of horrible cultural trends telling them that everything bad is good (gang culture, drugs, misogyny, etc.), and we’ve got a serious problem on our hands.

                    Venker goes on to explain that of CNN’s list of the “27 Deadliest Mass Shootings In U.S. History, only one was raised by his biological father since childhood.

                    “Indeed, there is a direct correlation between boys who grow up with absent fathers and boys who drop out of school, who drink, who do drugs, who become delinquent and who wind up in prison,” she writes. “And who kill their classmates.”

                    This problem can’t be solved by any policy, or any sort of gun control. It is time to have a serious discussion about the degradation of our cultural norms.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      “Indeed, there is a direct correlation between boys who grow up with absent fathers and boys who drop out of school, who drink, who do drugs, who become delinquent and who wind up in prison,” she writes. “And who kill their classmates.”

                      This problem can’t be solved by any policy, or any sort of gun control...
                      Obviously the last sentence is utter BS, as the rest of the Western world has plenty of fatherlessness but few gun massacres because they have gun control.

                      In general, yes, "broken homes" (in a wide sense of including domestic violence or seriously criminal parents) is one of the biggest causes today of criminal behavior in general. The science would strongly support a very pro-active government intervention policy like Norway has that removes children from "problem" homes/families as early as possible and puts them into adoptive families instead. And it would also support not sending fathers to jail/prison and taking them away from their family unless the crimes are serious - community service or home detention are better sentences for petty crime as it keeps the family together. From what I can see the US is pretty bad on both issues, and sadly my own country is bad on the first issue.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        This is the kind of thing for which I was looking

                        Of the 27 Deadliest Mass Shooters, 26 of Them Had One Thing in Common

                        Suzanne Venker’s recent opinion piece on FoxNews is very, very important, because she points out that almost all of the most recent deadly mass shooters have one thing in common: fatherlessness.

                        She begins by pointing out a tweet after the terrible shooting in Florida last week. Actor and comedian Michael Ian Black began a series of tweets in this way, “Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken.”

                        Venker goes on to describe how his “tweet storm” strayed from the truth:
                        Unfortunately, Black quickly veered off course. “Men don’t have the language to understand masculinity as anything other than some version of a caveman because no language exists…The language of masculinity is hopelessly entwined with sexuality, and the language of sexuality in hopelessly entwined with power, agency, and self-worth…To step outside those norms is to take a risk most of us are afraid to take. As a result, a lot of guys spend their lives terrified…We’re terrified of being viewed as something other than men. We know ourselves to be men, but don’t know how to be our whole selves. A lot of us (me included) either shut off or experience deep shame or rage. Or all three. Again: men are terrified.”

                        Mr. Black is not the first to attack masculinity and suggest it’s at the root of all evil. Indeed, the phrase ‘toxic masculinity’ has become boilerplate language in America.

                        It’s not a hard sell, either. After all, it is boys and men who are typically to blame for violent acts of aggression. Ergo, testosterone—the defining hormone of masculinity—must be to blame. But testosterone has been around forever. School shootings have not.

                        Mr. Black is correct that boys are broken. But they’re not broken as a result of being cavemen who haven’t “evolved” the way women have. They’re broken for another reason.

                        They are fatherless.

                        Yes, yes, and a thousand times yes.

                        Fatherlessness is a serious problem. America’s boys have been under stress for decades. It’s not toxic masculinity hurting them, it’s the fact that when they come home there are no fathers there. Plain and simple. Add that to a bunch of horrible cultural trends telling them that everything bad is good (gang culture, drugs, misogyny, etc.), and we’ve got a serious problem on our hands.

                        Venker goes on to explain that of CNN’s list of the “27 Deadliest Mass Shootings In U.S. History, only one was raised by his biological father since childhood.

                        “Indeed, there is a direct correlation between boys who grow up with absent fathers and boys who drop out of school, who drink, who do drugs, who become delinquent and who wind up in prison,” she writes. “And who kill their classmates.”

                        This problem can’t be solved by any policy, or any sort of gun control. It is time to have a serious discussion about the degradation of our cultural norms.
                        Isn't this wrong, though? Didn't Mateen, Cho, Harris, and Klebold all live with both birth parents until the shooting/adulthood?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                          Isn't this wrong, though?
                          Yeah, it's wrong. Charles Whitman wasn't fatherless, nor was Omar Mateen. I can't find anything to suggest Devin Patrick Kelley or Eric Harris were either.
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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                            Isn't this wrong, though? Didn't Mateen, Cho, Harris, and Klebold all live with both birth parents until the shooting/adulthood?
                            I presented the citation - if you have something that shows it's wrong, please post it.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              surprised atheism hasn't come up. fartlight tried to claim they are mostly white christians but when I looked over his list in another thread p much all of them turned out to be atheists.
                              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                                Obviously the last sentence is utter BS, as the rest of the Western world has plenty of fatherlessness but few gun massacres because they have gun control.
                                The rest of the western world has plenty of gun massacres. gun control only prevents them in island nations.
                                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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