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Thread: How Many of the "Spree Shooters" Came from Broken Homes?

  1. #21
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Any of the shooters involved in the mass shootings - could have made that more clear, but this was from a related subject where somebody (don't remember who) referred to the school shooters (and others) as "spree shooters".
    There are way too many shootings that fall under 'mass' but would not be well described by 'spree'. Few school shootings really fall into that category - spree killers are usually older, disaffected and highly mobile - and have little or no ability/desire to inhibit themselves. Spree killers are often disaffected and frequently (if they live long enough to get diagnosed) sociopathic. Mass killings are often premeditated with days or weeks of planning - spree killings aren't usually premeditated by more than a few minutes.

  2. #22
    tWebber
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    FWIW, a school shooter we had 20 years ago in Oregon (Kinkel) did not come from a broken home. In fact, he killed his parents before heading to school and shooting. By all accounts they were loving parents (his sister is around to attest to this)

  3. #23
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrian View Post
    FWIW, a school shooter we had 20 years ago in Oregon (Kinkel) did not come from a broken home. In fact, he killed his parents before heading to school and shooting. By all accounts they were loving parents (his sister is around to attest to this)
    That's been seen in a number of such shootings (although the parental murder is rare).

  4. #24
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    This is the kind of thing for which I was looking

    Of the 27 Deadliest Mass Shooters, 26 of Them Had One Thing in Common

    Suzanne Venker’s recent opinion piece on FoxNews is very, very important, because she points out that almost all of the most recent deadly mass shooters have one thing in common: fatherlessness.

    She begins by pointing out a tweet after the terrible shooting in Florida last week. Actor and comedian Michael Ian Black began a series of tweets in this way, “Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken.”

    Venker goes on to describe how his “tweet storm” strayed from the truth:

    Unfortunately, Black quickly veered off course. “Men don’t have the language to understand masculinity as anything other than some version of a caveman because no language exists…The language of masculinity is hopelessly entwined with sexuality, and the language of sexuality in hopelessly entwined with power, agency, and self-worth…To step outside those norms is to take a risk most of us are afraid to take. As a result, a lot of guys spend their lives terrified…We’re terrified of being viewed as something other than men. We know ourselves to be men, but don’t know how to be our whole selves. A lot of us (me included) either shut off or experience deep shame or rage. Or all three. Again: men are terrified.”

    Mr. Black is not the first to attack masculinity and suggest it’s at the root of all evil. Indeed, the phrase ‘toxic masculinity’ has become boilerplate language in America.

    It’s not a hard sell, either. After all, it is boys and men who are typically to blame for violent acts of aggression. Ergo, testosterone—the defining hormone of masculinity—must be to blame. But testosterone has been around forever. School shootings have not.

    Mr. Black is correct that boys are broken. But they’re not broken as a result of being cavemen who haven’t “evolved” the way women have. They’re broken for another reason.

    They are fatherless.

    Yes, yes, and a thousand times yes.

    Fatherlessness is a serious problem. America’s boys have been under stress for decades. It’s not toxic masculinity hurting them, it’s the fact that when they come home there are no fathers there. Plain and simple. Add that to a bunch of horrible cultural trends telling them that everything bad is good (gang culture, drugs, misogyny, etc.), and we’ve got a serious problem on our hands.

    Venker goes on to explain that of CNN’s list of the “27 Deadliest Mass Shootings In U.S. History, only one was raised by his biological father since childhood.

    “Indeed, there is a direct correlation between boys who grow up with absent fathers and boys who drop out of school, who drink, who do drugs, who become delinquent and who wind up in prison,” she writes. “And who kill their classmates.”

    This problem can’t be solved by any policy, or any sort of gun control. It is time to have a serious discussion about the degradation of our cultural norms.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  5. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
  6. #25
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    “Indeed, there is a direct correlation between boys who grow up with absent fathers and boys who drop out of school, who drink, who do drugs, who become delinquent and who wind up in prison,” she writes. “And who kill their classmates.”

    This problem can’t be solved by any policy, or any sort of gun control...
    Obviously the last sentence is utter BS, as the rest of the Western world has plenty of fatherlessness but few gun massacres because they have gun control.

    In general, yes, "broken homes" (in a wide sense of including domestic violence or seriously criminal parents) is one of the biggest causes today of criminal behavior in general. The science would strongly support a very pro-active government intervention policy like Norway has that removes children from "problem" homes/families as early as possible and puts them into adoptive families instead. And it would also support not sending fathers to jail/prison and taking them away from their family unless the crimes are serious - community service or home detention are better sentences for petty crime as it keeps the family together. From what I can see the US is pretty bad on both issues, and sadly my own country is bad on the first issue.

  7. #26
    tWebber Psychic Missile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    This is the kind of thing for which I was looking

    Of the 27 Deadliest Mass Shooters, 26 of Them Had One Thing in Common

    Suzanne Venker’s recent opinion piece on FoxNews is very, very important, because she points out that almost all of the most recent deadly mass shooters have one thing in common: fatherlessness.

    She begins by pointing out a tweet after the terrible shooting in Florida last week. Actor and comedian Michael Ian Black began a series of tweets in this way, “Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken.”

    Venker goes on to describe how his “tweet storm” strayed from the truth:

    Unfortunately, Black quickly veered off course. “Men don’t have the language to understand masculinity as anything other than some version of a caveman because no language exists…The language of masculinity is hopelessly entwined with sexuality, and the language of sexuality in hopelessly entwined with power, agency, and self-worth…To step outside those norms is to take a risk most of us are afraid to take. As a result, a lot of guys spend their lives terrified…We’re terrified of being viewed as something other than men. We know ourselves to be men, but don’t know how to be our whole selves. A lot of us (me included) either shut off or experience deep shame or rage. Or all three. Again: men are terrified.”

    Mr. Black is not the first to attack masculinity and suggest it’s at the root of all evil. Indeed, the phrase ‘toxic masculinity’ has become boilerplate language in America.

    It’s not a hard sell, either. After all, it is boys and men who are typically to blame for violent acts of aggression. Ergo, testosterone—the defining hormone of masculinity—must be to blame. But testosterone has been around forever. School shootings have not.

    Mr. Black is correct that boys are broken. But they’re not broken as a result of being cavemen who haven’t “evolved” the way women have. They’re broken for another reason.

    They are fatherless.

    Yes, yes, and a thousand times yes.

    Fatherlessness is a serious problem. America’s boys have been under stress for decades. It’s not toxic masculinity hurting them, it’s the fact that when they come home there are no fathers there. Plain and simple. Add that to a bunch of horrible cultural trends telling them that everything bad is good (gang culture, drugs, misogyny, etc.), and we’ve got a serious problem on our hands.

    Venker goes on to explain that of CNN’s list of the “27 Deadliest Mass Shootings In U.S. History, only one was raised by his biological father since childhood.

    “Indeed, there is a direct correlation between boys who grow up with absent fathers and boys who drop out of school, who drink, who do drugs, who become delinquent and who wind up in prison,” she writes. “And who kill their classmates.”

    This problem can’t be solved by any policy, or any sort of gun control. It is time to have a serious discussion about the degradation of our cultural norms.
    Isn't this wrong, though? Didn't Mateen, Cho, Harris, and Klebold all live with both birth parents until the shooting/adulthood?

  8. #27
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychic Missile View Post
    Isn't this wrong, though?
    Yeah, it's wrong. Charles Whitman wasn't fatherless, nor was Omar Mateen. I can't find anything to suggest Devin Patrick Kelley or Eric Harris were either.
    Last edited by Roy; 02-28-2018 at 01:14 PM.
    Mountain Man: A skin cell is a skin cell. It doesn't grow, it doesn't organize, it doesn't adapt, it doesn't self-sustain, it doesn't metabolize, it doesn't respond to stimuli.

  9. #28
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychic Missile View Post
    Isn't this wrong, though? Didn't Mateen, Cho, Harris, and Klebold all live with both birth parents until the shooting/adulthood?
    I presented the citation - if you have something that shows it's wrong, please post it.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  10. #29
    tWebber Darth Executor's Avatar
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    surprised atheism hasn't come up. fartlight tried to claim they are mostly white christians but when I looked over his list in another thread p much all of them turned out to be atheists.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

  11. #30
    tWebber Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Obviously the last sentence is utter BS, as the rest of the Western world has plenty of fatherlessness but few gun massacres because they have gun control.
    The rest of the western world has plenty of gun massacres. gun control only prevents them in island nations.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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