A Sane Discussion About Gun Violence

[Cow Poke]

I'd be fine with banning drug commercials too.

Commercials? How bout a little more focus on why so many drugs cause "thoughts of suicide"?

[Adrift]

Who? I'd love to see the names of those persons who have disputed that guns are effective at killing.

I'm not saying it is disputed, only that it seems that way to me. Posters on this forum, including Sparko, lilpixie, MM, rogue, Jedidiah, and yourself tend to downplay the effectiveness of guns compared to other methods of killing/self-harm because you don't want to see guns banned. I understand that desire, but I think it's ultimately not such a convincing argument.

[Jedidiah]

Yeah, I know that was a bit facetious but the point I want to make is that while banning guns might have an effect on the number of suicides committed by using a gun it probably won't effect the overall suicide rate. If someone wants to kill themself there are many ways to do it.

Might being the operative word here.

[Cow Poke]

I'm not saying it is disputed, only that it seems that way to me. Posters on this forum, including Sparko, lilpixie, MM, rogue, Jedidiah, and yourself tend to downplay the effectiveness of guns compared to other methods of killing/self-harm because you don't want to see guns banned. I understand that desire, but I think it's ultimately not such a convincing argument.

Can you show me where I've done that, please?

[Adrift]

Commercials? How bout a little more focus on why so many drugs cause "thoughts of suicide"?

I'm not sure I get your point. I don't know why so many drugs have that side-effect.

[Jedidiah]

Apparently gun suicide is pretty high, and it's of course incredibly lethal. Most attempted suicides are a call for help, and less lethal methods of suicide mean that people stay alive long enough to get the help they need. That isn't to say that there aren't other ways to commit lethal suicide, only that gun suicide is a popular option because it's easy to access a gun, and it's a sure way to get dead.

Those people crying out for help will not use a gun.

[Jedidiah]

I don't know. Seems like a lot of people like to dispute that fact.

An example of this, please. If there are actually a lot of such people you should find at least one here on TWeb, but quotes from someone who questions the effectiveness of guns for killing. You are distorting the posts by those you listed in your response to CP. I certainly never questioned the effectiveness of guns.

[EvoUK]

Commercials? How bout a little more focus on why so many drugs cause "thoughts of suicide"?

I imagine any drugs which are ‘downers’ or cause even mild depression would have this effect. Alcohol is an example. It’s just the drug companies being over cautious in their advertising- but I don’t get why they’re advertised on the telly in the first place (barring over the counter drugs such as paracetamol etc).

[Adrift]

Can you show me where I've done that, please?

Sure, Here you started a thread called Knife Control! Yep, Next After Gun Control! and then posted, "When guns are hard to obtain, will killings stop? "

Here you pointed out that ISIS called for random knife attacks. By itself that doesn't mean anything, but it was in a thread where people were implying that knives were as effective to determined individuals as guns.

In this very thread you downplayed suicide by gun by asking if we should take guns away from cops. All of this has the effect of making it look like you don't think guns are really an issue, and that there are other methods that are just as effective as guns, so that isn't really the problem.

[Cow Poke]

I imagine any drugs which are ‘downers’ or cause even mild depression would have this effect. Alcohol is an example. It’s just the drug companies being over cautious in their advertising- but I don’t get why they’re advertised on the telly in the first place (barring over the counter drugs such as paracetamol etc).

They want you to ask your doctor to prescribe the drugs they advertise. Representatives from the various drug companies frequently visit doctors' offices and clinics pushing their own products, giving free samples, and "inducements" to push (prescribe) more of their product. It's shameless.

[Adrift]

Those people crying out for help will not use a gun.

See my post #311 where Liza Gold points out that most suicides are done impulsively and often under the influence. You can still reason with someone who survives a suicide attempt and give them the help they require. Not so much with someone who is successful. This should be common sense.

[Adrift]

An example of this, please. If there are actually a lot of such people you should find at least one here on TWeb, but quotes from someone who questions the effectiveness of guns for killing. You are distorting the posts by those you listed in your response to CP. I certainly never questioned the effectiveness of guns.

See my response to CP.

[Cow Poke]

Sure, Here you started a thread called Knife Control! Yep, Next After Gun Control! and then posted, "When guns are hard to obtain, will killings stop? "

Here you pointed out that ISIS called for random knife attacks. By itself that doesn't mean anything, but it was in a thread where people were implying that knives were as effective to determined individuals as guns.

In this very thread you downplayed suicide by gun by asking if we should take guns away from cops. All of this has the effect of making it look like you don't think guns are really an issue, and that there are other methods that are just as effective as guns, so that isn't really the problem.

Wow, I think your emotions are pooping on your reason. I'll respond to this after I take Mrs CP for some good ol' Mexican food.

[Teallaura]

wow

Pathetic.

[Adrift]

Wow, I think your emotions are pooping on your reason. I'll respond to this after I take Mrs CP for some good ol' Mexican food.

Nope. Currently I'm as cool as a cucumber. The impression I've gotten from many gun rights people on this forum really is that guns are not any more effective than knives, cars, poison and the like to the determined individual. I'd be more than happy to see that that impression is misplaced.