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A Sane Discussion About Gun Violence

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  • Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
    I'll admit I'm not a gun user so I could be wrong, but I highly question how effective as a simulator a video game is due to the many apparent differences between them and real life. Driving games certainly did essentially nothing to prepare me for learning how to actually drive.
    I'm not claiming any great benefit - BUT there have been studies showing the reduced inhibition of shooting at people - and effect noted first by the military years ago. Might not make them Delta Force but it sure as heck does play a role in their willingness to shoot people - and that much practice has to have some benefit.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

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    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      So my #3 item is: A national database of gun ownership, with proper funding to ensure that it is maintained and interlinked with other databases to create the ability to raise those flags. Interestingly - there is precedent for this: the founding father actually saw this as an important part of maintaining a "well-regulated militia."
      From the article you linked it seems the founding fathers wanted to... keep track of guns owned by state militias for militia duty. IE: the equivalent of the modern US military keeping track of the guns of its soldiers. Hardly an argument for keeping track of every privately owned firearm. The whole point was to make sure militiamen had functioning weapons if they were required to use them.

      Constitutional rights when it comes to privacy have already been eroded considerably. Stop and frisk, search and seize, etc. And the US government is completely unconcerned with foreign hackers stealing the personal information of millions of government workers, to say nothing of a number of other privacy issues that could arise. There have been at least a couple of cases of anti-gun "journalists" publishing lists of gun owners in their newspapers.
      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

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      • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
        If he left the house unlocked he is liable. If the kids broke in, he is not liable - my rational evaluation, not some legal gobbelty gook.
        Your evaluation is irrational - you were fully aware that guns are controlled and cannot be legally possessed or operated by everyone. You made no attempt to secure the weapon from unauthorized use - which in the case of a weapon is negligence by definition. That weapon is YOUR responsibility and if you treat it so casually that little effort is required for someone to obtain it from you, you are being irresponsible and negligent.

        This is one reason why people actually advocate abolition - negligent gun owners.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          wow
          Stop that - answer the question. Or heck - define proficiency. "Gun nut' and 'qualified shooter' aren't the same thing - unless you wanna just go ahead and concede that all gun enthusiasts/owners are nuts?

          EDIT: never mind - Adrift had already answered and I didn't see it until later.
          Last edited by Teallaura; 02-24-2018, 09:28 PM.
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

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          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Video games as a weapons simulator? Hardly. They might teach you basic combat tactics, but they won't teach you a thing about how to properly handle a gun.
            Which was pretty much what I said, only I suspect it improves aim somewhat as well..
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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            • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              Your evaluation is irrational - you were fully aware that guns are controlled and cannot be legally possessed or operated by everyone. You made no attempt to secure the weapon from unauthorized use - which in the case of a weapon is negligence by definition. That weapon is YOUR responsibility and if you treat it so casually that little effort is required for someone to obtain it from you, you are being irresponsible and negligent.

              This is one reason why people actually advocate abolition - negligent gun owners.
              A gun locked in a house is clearly secured. The nanny state may disagree, but I put the all the blame on the shooter and none on the gun owner who locked his gun in his house. There is, in my view, no negligence if a gun is in a locked house. I am not arguing law, but my view of right and wrong.
              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                wow

                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                Stop that - answer the question. Or heck - define proficiency. "Gun nut' and 'qualified shooter' aren't the same thing - unless you wanna just go ahead and concede that all gun enthusiasts/owners are nuts?

                EDIT: never mind - Adrift had already answered and I didn't see it until later.
                wow
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                  Stop that - answer the question. Or heck - define proficiency. "Gun nut' and 'qualified shooter' aren't the same thing - unless you wanna just go ahead and concede that all gun enthusiasts/owners are nuts?

                  EDIT: never mind - Adrift had already answered and I didn't see it until later.
                  This is supposed to be a sane discussion about guns, not a liberal nit pick fest.
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                  • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                    This is supposed to be a sane discussion about guns, not a liberal nit pick fest.
                    Teal is not exactly what I would call a liberal. Dismissing all disagreement with the pro-gun party line as a "liberal nit pick fest" is a good rhetorical way to squelch all discussion though.
                    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                    • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                      Teal is not exactly what I would call a liberal. Dismissing all disagreement with the pro-gun party line as a "liberal nit pick fest" is a good rhetorical way to squelch all discussion though.
                      My apologies to Teal and to you. That was a gut reaction and not done in the spirit of the thread.
                      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                      • guns.jpg


                        How accurate is this?
                        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                        • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]26628[/ATTACH]


                          How accurate is this?
                          If you just pulled it from http://www.romans322.com/daily-death...statistics.php then likely not very as it's already gone up 300 for Murder by Guns. And it also doesn't tell us how many of those suicides were by gun either.

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                          • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                            My apologies to Teal and to you. That was a gut reaction and not done in the spirit of the thread.
                            I feel a need to clarify the post that bred this apology. I do strongly believe that any blame to the victim of a gun theft, for the gun related crime of whoever stole the gun is pathological. When society does this it is exhibiting a break from reality. The only person responsible for a crime is the person who committed it.

                            It is pure nit pickery to require that I lock my guns in a separate locked box, inside the already locked box of my house. That is not sane at all. We, my wife and I, do keep our hand guns in the safe with the bolts from the rifles. This is not because I think I am somehow endangering society if I do not. It is purely because our pathological society would irrationally apply blame to me if the guns were stolen and used in a crime. All the limit access to guns ideas I have read fall into this same pathological pattern. It makes sense to blame the criminal for his crime, not blame the victim of a different crime. I do recognize that our society is moving further into this pathology every day, but that does not make it right or sane.
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                            • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                              If you just pulled it from http://www.romans322.com/daily-death...statistics.php then likely not very as it's already gone up 300 for Murder by Guns. And it also doesn't tell us how many of those suicides were by gun either.
                              So you do not have any knowledge of the topic. Fine, but even though it has changed somewhat it is still reasonably accurate according to your source - so thanks for the information. Oh, and I am not interested in suicides by gun, only murder by gun. Suicide is a completely separate issue.
                              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                              • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                                I feel a need to clarify the post that bred this apology. I do strongly believe that any blame to the victim of a gun theft, for the gun related crime of whoever stole the gun is pathological. When society does this it is exhibiting a break from reality. The only person responsible for a crime is the person who committed it.

                                It is pure nit pickery to require that I lock my guns in a separate locked box, inside the already locked box of my house. That is not sane at all. We, my wife and I, do keep our hand guns in the safe with the bolts from the rifles. This is not because I think I am somehow endangering society if I do not. It is purely because our pathological society would irrationally apply blame to me if the guns were stolen and used in a crime. All the limit access to guns ideas I have read fall into this same pathological pattern. It makes sense to blame the criminal for his crime, not blame the victim of a different crime. I do recognize that our society is moving further into this pathology every day, but that does not make it right or sane.
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