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A Sane Discussion About Gun Violence
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThis would, of course, require a massive gun ownership database. I think this is a major area of mistrust - both from a practical stance (even credit companies can't keep their records secure) and what you might call a conspiratorial stance (easier for the government to round up guns).
None of my firearms are "registered" in a database.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostIf history shows us anything, it shows us that making certain things "illegal" simply feeds a black market for them.
That doesn't mean everything should be legal, but it does mean we need to be careful about we do and do notmake illegal. It's not clear to me that "banning guns" is going to solve the problem. And there is a vast array of perfectly appropriate uses for guns. We need to find the strategy that will allow law-abiding citizens to own and use guns, while simultaneously minimizing the potential for them getting into the hands of those who are most likely to do harm.
... um
neermindThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostOk.
Gotta start someplace. Sooner we do it, the less we have to wait.
Which would likely disincentivize most would be criminals.
I don't agree.
So if we keep locking up gun-toting criminals, wouldn't that eventually get all of the criminals off the street? Heck, stick them in the Army and send them to Afghanistan where they can use the guns all they want.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIn the case of a 'mass shooter', they often don't give a flyin' flip about laws or consequences, because they often plan on "going out in a blaze of glory", and there is nobody to prosecute.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostEGGzackly. And I don't think there's even a snowball's chance in the hot place that all other countries will stop manufacturing and shipping guns. Do you have any idea, for example, how many countries and manufacturers are licensed to produce the AK-47?
But ask me how an IP packet is structured!The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostBut, as we have discussed before, there are notable differences between gun and vehicles, and gun and vehicle ownership and/or registration.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostThanks for opinions on my question, folks. I'll bow out now.
(why am I suddenly feeling a tad pollyanna-ish? )The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostThere are differences - and there are parallels. It's not all one or the other...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostHow is an IP packet structured?
And what caliber is it?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostIf history shows us anything, it shows us that making certain things "illegal" simply feeds a black market for them. That doesn't mean everything should be legal, but it does mean we need to be careful about we do and do notmake illegal. It's not clear to me that "banning guns" is going to solve the problem. And there is a vast array of perfectly appropriate uses for guns. We need to find the strategy that will allow law-abiding citizens to own and use guns, while simultaneously minimizing the potential for them getting into the hands of those who are most likely to do harm.
We have to go after the end user. If we can't change people's minds or get them mental help, we need to keep them off the streets or frighten them so much that they won't want to risk using guns on something. If they would get 3 years for burglary, but 15 if they had a gun, how many burglars do you think would risk using guns? Strict punishment probably won't work on mass shooters because like CP said, they don't expect to survive. We just need to stop them before they get to that point. Like take seriously all the warnings like they got with the Cruz kid.
No solution will be 100%. We will always have crime and murder. Until Jesus comes back.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postright. Banning drugs didn't eliminate drugs because they didn't go after the root of the problem: People want to use drugs. As long as there is a market for them there will be illegal drugs. Guns are the same. As long as criminals want guns, they will get guns.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostYou are misunderstanding me.
We already have regulations on guns. They ain't working. But I am all for having some regulations and doing some good. Adrift proposes banning some or all guns from everyone. He thinks that way they will eventually go out of circulation (as cops take them off the streets from criminals they catch) - only a total ban would even start to accomplish that because you have to make sure there is no fresh supply.
My point is that even if you could accomplish that, there are still a LOT of guns out there. It would take a long time. And you would just increase the profitability of gun smugglers to traffick in guns from other countries that don't have a ban. Like countries in middle and south america.
I think the question we need to keep returning to is - how do we keep guns out of the hands of people who ought not have them? To achieve that, I think, at the very least, gun owners need to recognize that they are in possession of a weapon of harm - and part of the right to have that weapon includes the responsibility to help the rest of us ensure that they are not acquired by those who ought not have them.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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