A Sane Discussion About Gun Violence

[Teallaura]

Who commits the crime should pay. I have stated before that I consider locked in my house to be secured. The rest is baloney.

He who is negligent - or shows depraved indifference - should pay for their disregard for the safety of others. Had that principle been in effect in Arkansas, the two boys who ambushed their classmates would never have succeeded - they got their guns from their grandfather who hadn't bothered to get a gun safe. They could not access their own guns or their father's which were in his gun safe.

[Teallaura]

He has said he wants all guns taken away from everyone because there are a relatively few people who misuse them it is in essence what he is saying.

No, that actually isn't what he really said. I think he is pro abolition where I'm not but his grounds have to do with relative destruction, not just misuse.

[Adrift]

No, that actually isn't what he really said. I think he is pro abolition where I'm not but his grounds have to do with relative destruction, not just misuse.

Exactly. Thank you.

[Mountain Man]

In a crowded arena, why do I care how long it takes? Unless it's going to be long enough for bystanders to recover and disarm the guy, it really doesn't matter - and in that instance capacity really DOES matter. Even a crappy shot with a fully automatic weapon can hit more than a few people. I could hit someone at 60 yards or so with a BB gun (my nephew - wasn't hurt - think it scared me more than him) as a kid - I can darn sure hit people at point blank with an M-16.

That I couldn't operate it as effectively as a soldier or SWAT unit guy really doesn't make the people with bullets in them feel any better.

The disconnected idea that guns aren't force multipliers if you aren't an expert in their use is just DUMB.

I'm not sure what point you think I was making. All I was saying is that reducing the size of magazines won't significantly hinder a skilled and determined shooter. What does it matter if someone only has an 8-round versus 15-round magazine if he can swap magazines in the blink of an eye?

[carpedm9587]

Yes to the first, no to the second.

So you believe all guns should be removed from the population? No exceptions?

[Adrift]

So you believe all guns should be removed from the population? No exceptions?

Pretty much. I'd personally prefer something like England's gun restrictions, which as I understand it, bans everything but hunting rifles and some shotguns (though I think police should remain armed). But understanding my own personal preferences are idealistic, I think the following would be a great start (from a post I wrote the last time we had a mass shooting),

Here's a video by Vox that compiles a number of the most popular statistics together, and points out that most of the other 1st world nations where guns are legal have much tougher laws concerning acquiring and keeping guns including that you need:

1.) A license
2.) A recording into an official registry
3.) To acquire a license you need to state a reason for ownership
4.) In most countries you must pass a safety test
5.) And are required by law to store the gun safely

Regardless of your thoughts on Vox itself, I think it makes a pretty compelling case, and as far as I can tell, balanced argument. It mentions things like Switzerland's gun ownership laws, and the issues that they themselves have seen with so many freely available guns.

[Cow Poke]

Umm.. your certification has long since expired...

It's kind of like saying, "yeah - the last time I renewed my driver's license was, ummm... 12 years ago... "

It's no longer necessary in the field I'm in - but nobody can take away my knowledge gained! (except time )

[Cow Poke]

If you left it unsecured, yes. Rights come with responsibilities.

That doen't automatically require jail.

[Cow Poke]

Sheesh... now I have to give up thinking your stupid...

[Cow Poke]

And I put that "your" there on purpose - grammar Nazi!

Figgered.

[Cow Poke]

Umm.. your certification has long since expired...

It's kind of like saying, "yeah - the last time I renewed my driver's license was, ummm... 12 years ago... "

Actually, not such a good analogy.

The CCNA is not "required" to operate in the field - in most industries, once you're in, you're in. It's often just a "foot in the door" kind of thing. Or, if you can demonstrate proficiency without the CCNA - like I did - it's not even a "foot in the door" thing.

On the other hand, if you drive a motor vehicle on public roads, you are, indeed, required to have a current license.

[rogue06]

Sheesh... now I have to give up thinking your stupid...

Let's not get hasty and leap to conclusions.

[Cow Poke]

He who is negligent - or shows depraved indifference - should pay for their disregard for the safety of others. Had that principle been in effect in Arkansas, the two boys who ambushed their classmates would never have succeeded - they got their guns from their grandfather who hadn't bothered to get a gun safe. They could not access their own guns or their father's which were in his gun safe.

You can't know that. Even if the grandfather had had a safe, it's possible they could have found the combination written down somewhere, or conned him into showing the guns to them --- you really can't say "never would have succeeded" just on the basis that the grandfather 'hadn't bothered to get a gun safe'.

[Cow Poke]

I'm not sure what point you think I was making. All I was saying is that reducing the size of magazines won't significantly hinder a skilled and determined shooter. What does it matter if someone only has an 8-round versus 15-round magazine if he can swap magazines in the blink of an eye?

As I said....

Think about that - in these situations, there is no "return fire", so a few seconds to swap magazines more often (that's all it takes) isn't a critical issue.

In the 'active shooter' situation, where nobody else is armed, it happens so fast that nobody's really thinking "OK, if he swaps magazines one more time....". He's pretty much free to continue swapping magazines until armed resistance stands up, or somebody gets bold enough to run toward him and tackle him.

[rogue06]

You can't know that. Even if the grandfather had had a safe, it's possible they could have found the combination written down somewhere, or conned him into showing the guns to them --- you really can't say "never would have succeeded" just on the basis that the grandfather 'hadn't bothered to get a gun safe'.

Not to mention that a lot of gun safes are designed to be a deterrent to your typical burglar who wants to spend as little time in the residence as possible. Pretty easy for someone who lives there to peal it open.