Originally posted by Cow Poke
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A Sane Discussion About Gun Violence
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The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostFirst that would take a ban on ALL guns, maybe on gun manufacturing.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostAnd it would take a LONG time, because there are a lot of guns out there.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostAnd other countries make guns and have them too. You would basically just be increasing the cost of illegal guns, and making them a precious commodity for gun runners and smugglers. Like trying to ban narcotics.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostIt just isn't reasonable. It is a lot more reasonable to maximize the punishment for those who misuse guns to the point that the criminals might think twice about using a gun during a burglary or other crime. I understand most criminals don't expect to get caught, but enough of them have been caught and have records of multiple arrests and stops that they would be pretty leary about getting caught and having to spend say 15 years in jail for just having a gun during a crime.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostOuch...
But I have to wonder if extreme penalties for use of a gun in the commission of a crime wouldn't change the dynamic...
And then I think of the extreme view in some Muslim countries around theft... and I just cannot get myself to go there...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI had considered that, but you would need to strictly define "negligent". For example, is it negligent to keep a gun unsecured in your own home? When I was growing up, my dad had a shotgun that he kept disassembled in a closet (he only used it for hunting). If someone broke into our house and stole it, would my dad have been guilty of negligence?The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostFrom what I know of the available data - they simply bring them in from locations where they are not banned - or they obtain them illegally.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostCompassionate conservative.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWe can't even make men take responsibility for their own families, let alone, others.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post"Some slack"? In the case of a stolen car, if the owner reported it stolen prior to it being used in the commission of a crime, he's blameless. (Unless, of course, there's some fraud, which happens)The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAgreed. If someone reported the theft of a gun, then they should get credit for that. Beyond that, I am finding myself struggling. If someone steals my car because I leave the keys under the seat (as I do) and then uses it to commit a crime, should I be held liable? I want to say no. I refuse to lock up my car because I refuse to live in a state of fear. That is a life choice. Now if I translate that to a gun I might own, am I more liable? I want to say "yes!" but I am not finding a rational to justify that largely emotional response.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI have to admit this argument always perplexes me. It seems to suggest "because criminals can get arms illegally, we should not bother doing anything to stop them getting them legally." Are you really trying to make tat argument, or am I misunderstanding you?
We already have regulations on guns. They ain't working. But I am all for having some regulations and doing some good. Adrift proposes banning some or all guns from everyone. He thinks that way they will eventually go out of circulation (as cops take them off the streets from criminals they catch) - only a total ban would even start to accomplish that because you have to make sure there is no fresh supply.
My point is that even if you could accomplish that, there are still a LOT of guns out there. It would take a long time. And you would just increase the profitability of gun smugglers to traffick in guns from other countries that don't have a ban. Like countries in middle and south america.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, let's go there. Do you, personally, support a gun ban in any form?The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostEGGzackly. And I don't think there's even a snowball's chance in the hot place that all other countries will stop manufacturing and shipping guns. Do you have any idea, for example, how many countries and manufacturers are licensed to produce the AK-47?
ILLEGAL FIREARMS IMPORTED FROM CHINA, U.S. REPORTS
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.9cd3ae613a96Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI'm like that.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAt the risk of being disrespectful...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostFirst that would take a ban on ALL guns, maybe on gun manufacturing. And it would take a LONG time, because there are a lot of guns out there. And other countries make guns and have them too. You would basically just be increasing the cost of illegal guns, and making them a precious commodity for gun runners and smugglers. Like trying to ban narcotics.
It just isn't reasonable. It is a lot more reasonable to maximize the punishment for those who misuse guns to the point that the criminals might think twice about using a gun during a burglary or other crime. I understand most criminals don't expect to get caught, but enough of them have been caught and have records of multiple arrests and stops that they would be pretty leary about getting caught and having to spend say 15 years in jail for just having a gun during a crime.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by seer View PostThis is an old story but I'm sure it still the case:
ILLEGAL FIREARMS IMPORTED FROM CHINA, U.S. REPORTS
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.9cd3ae613a96
But he "doesn't agree"
Last edited by Sparko; 02-23-2018, 02:08 PM.
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