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In spite of it all ...

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  • In spite of it all ...

    In spite of it all, the Faithful continue to believe.

    Someone that I know wrote the following:

    "From Cameron Grysen's book "Training for the truth of Christianity".

    The scientific case against abiogenesis was first made by scientist Francisco Ready in 1668. In various experiments, he proved that life cannot arise from non-living matter. His conclusions have never been disproved. However, the theory of abiogenesis gained new strength after Lyell introduced his theory of gradualism based on the fossil record. Darwin built on those assumptions, and spontaneous generation of life as a theory took root in the 19th century scientific community.

    During this same time, scientist Louis Pasteur also was investigating the possibility of spontaneous generation of life. Pasteur scientifically concluded that life only comes from life and he called it the “Law of Biogenesis” in 1859. This, too, has never been proven wrong. Ironically this was the same year Darwin published On the Origin of the Species. Pasteur was an early and vocal critic of Darwin’s work, but his Law of Biogenesis did not receive the attention that it warranted—it should have dealt a death blow to the idea of spontaneous generation of life. Darwin was careful to avoid mentioning spontaneous origin of life in his book, but it is still a necessary assumption in order for his naturalistic model to work.


    In an attempt to resolve this dilemma, The Origin of Life Foundation is currently offering a $1 million prize to anyone who can provide a chemically plausible naturalistic solution for the origin of life and the genetic code. The organization’s website (www.lifeorigin.org) states: “’The Origin-of-Life Prize’ will be awarded for proposing a highly plausible mechanism for the spontaneous rise of genetic instructions in nature sufficient to give rise to life. To win, the explanation must be consistent with empirical biochemical, kinetic, and thermodynamic concepts as further delineated herein and be published in a well-respected, peer-reviewed science journal(s).” The announcement is in a private area of the Foundation’s website accompanied by the following statement: "The Origin-of-Life Foundation, Inc. wishes to keep the project as quiet as possible within the scientific community.”


    Not one case of spontaneous generation of life has ever been observed; no realistic mechanism has ever been hypothesized."



    So, we have a "Law of Biogenesis" that has never once been proven wrong in over three-and-a-half centuries. But, wait a second -- aren't scientists supposed to "follow the evidence"? So why aren't they following THIS evidence?

    Answer: because as I have repeatedly stated here on TWeb, this is NOT about science, this is about a person's FAITH (religion). Science is only a Fake News cover story used to gain "credibility and justification".

    This is also why I have repeatedly stated here on TWeb that my faith in Jesus Christ is embarrassingly dwarfed by the faith of the Materialist Faithful. The same reasoning applies to all Evo-Faithful, the former being a subset of the latter. Maybe one day, when I 'grow up', my faith can reach the dizzying heights of the Faith held by Materialists.

    I think that the $1 million prize is safe - it ain't going nowhere.

    Bwahahahahaha

    Jorge

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jorge View Post
    In spite of it all, the Faithful continue to believe.

    Someone that I know wrote the following:

    "From Cameron Grysen's book "Training for the truth of Christianity".
    .
    .
    .

    So, we have a "Law of Biogenesis" that has never once been proven wrong in over three-and-a-half centuries. But, wait a second -- aren't scientists supposed to "follow the evidence"? So why aren't they following THIS evidence?

    Answer: because as I have repeatedly stated here on TWeb, this is NOT about science, this is about a person's FAITH (religion). Science is only a Fake News cover story used to gain "credibility and justification".

    This is also why I have repeatedly stated here on TWeb that my faith in Jesus Christ is embarrassingly dwarfed by the faith of the Materialist Faithful. The same reasoning applies to all Evo-Faithful, the former being a subset of the latter. Maybe one day, when I 'grow up', my faith can reach the dizzying heights of the Faith held by Materialists.

    I think that the $1 million prize is safe - it ain't going nowhere.

    Bwahahahahaha

    Jorge
    Another log on that fire :

    ""On October 26, 2013 the Governing Board of the Origin of Life Science Foundation, Inc. voted to put on hold the Origin of Life Prize Program, and to temporarily suspend the Origin of Life Prize offer. Over the 13 years since The Origin of Life Prize was first announced in NATURE and SCIENCE, no submission has ever made it past the screening judges to higher-level judges. No submission has ever addressed, let alone answered, any of the questions below, for which the Prize offer was instituted. Most of these Prize-offer questions centered on: "How did inanimate, prebiotic nature prescribe or program the first genome?""

    They gave up. What doesn't ever "give up" is the boundless FAITH of the Evo-Faithful.

    They probably used the $1 million to have a wild party including booze and evolved primates in skimpy swimsuits (AKA Playboy girls) popping out of a giant cake.

    Bwahahahahaha


    Jorge

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jorge View Post
      Another log on that fire :

      ""On October 26, 2013 the Governing Board of the Origin of Life Science Foundation, Inc. voted to put on hold the Origin of Life Prize Program, and to temporarily suspend the Origin of Life Prize offer. Over the 13 years since The Origin of Life Prize was first announced in NATURE and SCIENCE, no submission has ever made it past the screening judges to higher-level judges. No submission has ever addressed, let alone answered, any of the questions below, for which the Prize offer was instituted. Most of these Prize-offer questions centered on: "How did inanimate, prebiotic nature prescribe or program the first genome?""

      They gave up. What doesn't ever "give up" is the boundless FAITH of the Evo-Faithful.

      They probably used the $1 million to have a wild party including booze and evolved primates in skimpy swimsuits (AKA Playboy girls) popping out of a giant cake.

      Bwahahahahaha


      Jorge
      Interesting. Not knowing how life started says nothing about the massive evidence for billions of years and evolution itself. And to believe God created life does not necessarily presume there is not some natural sequence that was involved. God is involved in the creation, sustaining it, making it be and exist and proceed according to the powers he gave it.

      This really isn't much of a point, except to say that if one does not believe in God, one doesn't have direct objective evidence that life can form without intelligent or supernatural intervention. For now that is a belief.

      But that gap in knowledge is not proof God exists. And nothing about this line of thought excuses or justifis the rejection of the ToE itself, which is an explanation for the known and directly evidenced billion year history of life on the Earth.

      Jim
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jorge View Post


        Pasteur was an early and vocal critic of Darwin’s work
        This appears to be an oft-repeated myth in YEC circles with little to no basis in fact.

        For instance, AnswersinGenesis (AiG) likes to pretend that Pasteur was strongly opposed to evolution[1]. See for example Louis Pasteur (1822–1895): Outstanding Scientist and Opponent of Evolution. But being that these are the same folks who shamelessly rewrote and covertly censored the sermons of the great "Prince of Preachers" Charles Spurgeon to remove any traces of the fact that he matter-of-factly accepted an ancient earth, it is always wise to check their assertions to see if they even remotely resemble the truth.

        So it really should come as no surprise that Pasteur is actually quoted in Louis Pasteur: The man and his theories by Hilaire Cuny as having said the following:
        Virulence appears in a new light which cannot but be alarming to humanity; unless nature, in her evolution down the ages (an evolution which, as we now know, has been going on for millions, nay, hundreds of millions of years), has finally exhausted all the possibilities of producing virulent or contagious diseases -- which does not seem very likely[2]

        Elsewhere, Pasteur seems to make a point to not express an opinion one way or another, such as in 1864 while delivering an address to the University of Paris on Spontaneous Generation, where he opens with:
        Ladies and Gentlemen. Great problems are in question today, keeping every thinking man in suspense: the unity or multiplicity of human races, the creation of man one thousand years or one thousand centuries ago; the fixity of species, or the slow and progressive transformation of one species into another....

        Strange that he would neglect to castigate Darwin if he was an opponent but not so much if he was open-minded and hadn't reached any conclusions.

        Further, according to molecular biologist and Nobel Laureate (for Physiology or Medicine in 1958) Joshua Lederberger, who has researched and written on the matter, notes that while Pasteur was somewhat skeptical of evolutionary theory (specifically natural selection -- something common among French scientists of the time who were largely Lamarckian[3]), but certainly not an opponent. Pasteur expressed an open mind on the subject and wanted to see more evidence. The sign of a good scientist.

        Originally posted by Jorge View Post
        Darwin was careful to avoid mentioning spontaneous origin of life in his book, but it is still a necessary assumption in order for his naturalistic model to work.
        The indisputable fact remains that Evolutionary theory does not seek to explain how life comes about but rather what happens to it after it has arisen[4] -- no matter how it arose.

        How life first arose and what happens to it after it first arose are two totally separate issues. Moreover, evolution still works regardless of how life first came about. It matters not whether it was zapped into place ex nihilo or if it came about through purely naturalistic means. Either. Way. It. Still. Works.

        Sort of like water will still run downhill no matter how water first came to be.

        I think that you may not grasp that evolution is merely the name we have given to how life changes, adapts and diversifies over time. That it does so is an observable fact.

        And evolution takes place because, essentially, it's unavoidable in that it is built right into the molecules. The chemistry of DNA makes it unavoidable due to the fact that DNA doesn't replicate perfectly meaning that each generation is going to be a little different from the one before it.

        Now, any time you have imperfect self-replicators in an environment of limited resources, the result is going to be a tendency of those best suited to acquire and use the resources to produce more offspring.

        This will continue to happen again and again, over and over as life changes and adapts to its environment.

        Furthermore, no means has ever been observed that would ever prevent numerous small changes from accumulating into larger scale changes over scores of generations. Nor would prevent those larger scale changes from also accumulating over an even longer period of time.

        Isn't it wondrous that God put into place such a marvelous process as evolution?











        1. Some YECs claim that he was the first the first European scientist to reject evolution but this seems to be a recent claim. For decades the big name scientist always cited by evolution deniers as being against evolution was Louis Agassiz (who was virulently racist to his core, so much so he was an avid supporter of polygenism, the very unbiblical idea that races were created separately, so that he could say that he was related to blacks).

        2. To be fair another source for the quote omits the mention of millions of years but does include the matter-of-fact mention of evolution. In any case AnswersinGenesis (AIG), uncategorically states that Pasteur was "not a young-earth creationist (YEC or biblical creationist)."

        3. largely for patriotic reasons. Lamarckism remained popular in France until the middle of the last century.

        4. In the same way that atomic theory does not explain the origin of atoms or hydraulic theory does not explain how fluids first came about.

        To get a better idea about what I'm saying here Henry S. Lipson, Professor Emeritus of the Physics department at the University of Manchester Institute of Science and Technology once put it this way: "physicists and chemists always complain about easy biologists have it. The biologists have a neat and clean explanation for all of life after it comes into existence. But the other areas have to explain how it got there." In case I need to explain, biologists are the ones who deal with evolution. They are the ones who "have a neat and clean explanation for all of life after it comes into existence."
        Last edited by rogue06; 02-24-2018, 10:26 AM.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          The default answer to any question in science is "we don't know yet." Jorge appears to want to have special cases where he would change it to "you'll never know, because it was a miracle."
          "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

          Comment


          • #6
            Every Jorge thread/post in a nutshell:

            "When the Western world accepted Christianity, Caesar conquered; and the received text of Western theology was edited by his lawyers…. The brief Galilean vision of humility flickered throughout the ages, uncertainly…. But the deeper idolatry, of the fashioning of God in the image of the Egyptian, Persian, and Roman imperial rulers, was retained. The Church gave unto God the attributes which belonged exclusively to Caesar."

            — Alfred North Whitehead

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jorge View Post
              In spite of it all, the Faithful continue to believe.
              That's what happens when people decide in advance that no evidence against their ideas can possibly exist.
              Someone that I know wrote the following:
              So you know some-one as gullible and fraudulent as you are.
              I think that the $1 million prize is safe - it ain't going nowhere.
              Of course it's going nowhere - because, like the prize 'offered' by your pal Kent 'jailed-for-fraud' Hovind, it's a dishonest publicity stunt.

              There is no such organisation as the 'Origin of Life Foundation'. It's a fiction created by David Abel, the creationist huckster who also runs the fictional 'Gene Emergence Project' in the fictional 'Department of Protobiocybernetics and Protobiosemiotics' from a suburban garage.

              As for Cameron Grysen, his Amazon author description says:

              Presently retired after 32 years with the Houston Police Department, Dr. Grysen brings his investigative experience as a former detective and his more recent training as a Christian apologist to take a fresh look at our sun. He received a Doctor of Biblical Studies from Trinity Graduate School of Apologetics and Theology, and a PhD in Christian Apologetics from Newburgh Seminary.


              TGSAT is an online degree mill supposedly accredited by the equally fake accreditation mill ICAATS. Newburgh is, of course, the same degree mill from which you purchased your own fake doctorate.

              So it's a fake prize from a fake organisation cited by a fake doctor with two fake degrees and quoted here by another fake doctor with a fake degree. Fakery all the way down.

              The only question that could conceivably be of interest (apart from the recurrent one) is:

              Given your own supposed non-use of your 'degree' from Newburgh, why are you promoting some-one else who still uses a similar 'degree'?
              Last edited by Roy; 02-26-2018, 10:33 AM.
              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                Another log on that fire :

                ""On October 26, 2013 the Governing Board of the Origin of Life Science Foundation, Inc. voted to put on hold the Origin of Life Prize Program, and to temporarily suspend the Origin of Life Prize offer. Over the 13 years since The Origin of Life Prize was first announced in NATURE and SCIENCE, ...""
                There was no such announcement, unless David Abel paid for an advert. The whole thing is a pack of lies.
                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Roy View Post

                  There is no such organisation as the 'Origin of Life Foundation'. It's a fiction created by David Abel, the creationist huckster who also runs the fictional 'Gene Emergence Project' in the fictional 'Department of Protobiocybernetics and Protobiosemiotics' from a suburban garage.
                  Apparently they bill themselves as being "a 501(c)3 science and education foundation headquartered near NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, MD." Looks they are trying to give the impression that they're associated with a legitimate scientific center rather than being nothing more than someone's garage in the suburbs





                  Kind of reminds me of the alma mater of Jorge's buddy former prisoner 06452-017 Kent Hovind


                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                    "From Cameron Grysen's book "Training for the truth of Christianity".

                    The scientific case against abiogenesis was first made by scientist Francisco Ready in 1668. In various experiments, he proved that life cannot arise from non-living matter...
                    Apart from the usual creationist lie about spontaneous generation experiments proving life cannot arise from non-living matter - they only proved that maggots do not spontaneously appear in rotting meat - Jorge's fellow degree mill alumnus can't even spell the name of the experimenter correctly.

                    His name wasn't "Francisco Ready", it was Francesco Redi.

                    's source is an incompetent embarrassment. No wonder has clucked off again.
                    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      There is no such organisation as the 'Origin of Life Foundation'. It's a fiction created by David Abel, the creationist huckster who also runs the fictional 'Gene Emergence Project' in the fictional 'Department of Protobiocybernetics and Protobiosemiotics' from a suburban garage.
                      Unsurprisingly, the fakeness of the 'Origin of life foundation' has been pointed out to before. But hey, if he doesn't care about fictional qualifications, why worry about fictional foundations?
                      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Apparently they bill themselves as being "a 501(c)3 science and education foundation headquartered near NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, MD." Looks they are trying to give the impression that they're associated with a legitimate scientific center rather than being nothing more than someone's garage in the suburbs

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]26644[/ATTACH]

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]26645[/ATTACH]




                        Kind of reminds me of the alma mater of Jorge's buddy former prisoner 06452-017 Kent Hovind

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]26646[/ATTACH]
                        How does Jorge sleep at night knowing he allies himself with people that would actually just flat out lie about who and what they are. I'm sorry, even though (assuming the house itself is within a mile or two of the NASA center in Greenbelt MD) there might be some morsel of something true in their description, it is simply a deception, a lie - to advertise oneself in that way.

                        I wonder how in the the world "The end justifies the means" became part of the YEC 'biblical' Christian theology.

                        JIm
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          How does Jorge sleep at night knowing he allies himself with people that would actually just flat out lie about who and what they are.
                          Because he not only has no qualms about being associated with such dishonesty, he's an enthusiastic partaker. Lying about who and what they are is a core activity of (and arguably the reason for) the entire ID movement: purchasing bogus degrees, creating fake journals and institutes, concealing their religious views and motives, hiding behind misleading euphemisms like 'objective' and 'critical analysis', misrepresenting their conferences, misleading potential publishers, faking laboratory backgrounds, overstating experience and expertise, denying their actions and conspiring to commit perjury.

                          has a fake degree himself, lies as readily as he breathes, excuses the mendacity of fraudsters and quote-fakers, and has no integrity whatsoever. Why would he object to allying with people who behave as he does?
                          Last edited by Roy; 02-28-2018, 05:30 AM.
                          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Roy View Post
                            Because he not only has no qualms about being associated with such dishonesty, he's an enthusiastic partaker. Lying about who and what they are is a core activity of (and arguably the reason for) the entire ID movement: purchasing bogus degrees, creating fake journals and institutes, concealing their religious views and motives, hiding behind misleading euphemisms like 'objective' and 'critical analysis', misrepresenting their conferences, misleading potential publishers, faking laboratory backgrounds, overstating experience and expertise, denying their actions and conspiring to commit perjury.

                            has a fake degree himself, lies as readily as he breathes, excuses the mendacity of fraudsters and quote-fakers, and has no integrity whatsoever. Why would he object to allying with people who behave as he does?
                            My guess is if Jorge's eyes where opened so that he could see these sort of things for what they really are (lies, deceptions, manipulations), he would be sad this is what he has become. But his default assumption that anyone that does not agree with him on YEC is 'the enemey of God' gives him sufficient cover to remain blind. Most of his cohorts are willing enough to 'lie for Jesus' he can sit comfortably in his delusion God 'winks at' these sorts of things because they are 'on His side'.

                            Jim
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              My guess is if Jorge's eyes where opened so that he could see these sort of things for what they really are (lies, deceptions, manipulations), he would be sad this is what he has become.
                              There are none so blind as those that refuse to look.
                              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                              Comment

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