Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 9101112 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 113

Thread: Hypothetical. All guns dissapear. What happens?

  1. #101
    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    North Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,841
    Amen (Given)
    1479
    Amen (Received)
    1600
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    I don't know about you, but I'd much rather have a gun in a hand-to-hand fight than a knife. Also, I was never issued a knife in the military, and I don't know anyone who ever was, even those who got sent to the sandbox. I'm sure someone out there gets a knife...probably Navy SEALS or something, but it's not standard military issue with regular grunts. In most circumstances, most of the time, a gun is going to be far far more effective than a knife. Everyone knows this. I willing to bet that even you know this, but you won't admit that here.
    First of all, I agree with you that a gun is usually the better choice, but MM IS correct that in certain situations, the knife wins. Myth Busters did a scenario where the person with the knife started within 21 ft of the gun. The knife won most of the time. Now, the parameters were a little sketchy the gun had to start holstered and the knife was already out, so, I would have liked to see them start with both holstered. Now, if the gun is out like the knife, then yeah, I think the test would have been different. Also, I carry my gun with one in the chamber...but the safety is on.

    https://youtu.be/ckz7EmDxhtU
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

  2. #102
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,686
    Amen (Given)
    489
    Amen (Received)
    1280
    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    But hypotheticals, by definition, really need to be based at least in some hope of reality.

    hypothesis: a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.

    It's silly to discuss something inconceivable as a hypothetical, like "guns couldn't exist". Unpossible!
    Next time some theist suggests I consider what will happen when I faced his deity after death, I'll refer him to you
    Mountain Man: A skin cell is a skin cell. It doesn't grow, it doesn't organize, it doesn't adapt, it doesn't self-sustain, it doesn't metabolize, it doesn't respond to stimuli.

  3. #103
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,686
    Amen (Given)
    489
    Amen (Received)
    1280
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Don't you think it's a bit silly the measures you'll go to in order to wiggle out of the general observation that the lethality of any given weapon is entirely dependent on the circumstances in which it is used?

    "Guns are more lethal!"

    Really? Tell that to the 29 people who were killed in a knife attack in China in 2014. Would they somehow be more dead if the attackers had used guns?
    Why don't you tell those who survived because they were able to run away from the attackers, but who might have been dead if the attackers had used guns, that guns are not more lethal.
    Mountain Man: A skin cell is a skin cell. It doesn't grow, it doesn't organize, it doesn't adapt, it doesn't self-sustain, it doesn't metabolize, it doesn't respond to stimuli.

  4. #104
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,686
    Amen (Given)
    489
    Amen (Received)
    1280
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Yep. A negligible decrease proving that people don't need guns to kill each other.
    Not only is a decrease from 15 to 11 not negligible, but you claimed there was no decrease.

    Was that a lie, or merely a mistake? If it was a mistake, why haven't you admitted it, as you previously claimed you do? Or was that a lie?
    Last edited by Roy; 03-06-2018 at 11:27 AM.
    Mountain Man: A skin cell is a skin cell. It doesn't grow, it doesn't organize, it doesn't adapt, it doesn't self-sustain, it doesn't metabolize, it doesn't respond to stimuli.

  5. #105
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,686
    Amen (Given)
    489
    Amen (Received)
    1280
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Guns have the disadvantage of being extraordinarily noisy while knives can kill silently. It's all very situational, which is why soldiers are armed with both guns and knives.
    Kitchen knives, perhaps, since they supposedly "kill just as readily as" combat knives.

    Hey, MM! Do soldiers get issued with grapefruit knives?
    Last edited by Roy; 03-06-2018 at 11:48 AM.
    Mountain Man: A skin cell is a skin cell. It doesn't grow, it doesn't organize, it doesn't adapt, it doesn't self-sustain, it doesn't metabolize, it doesn't respond to stimuli.

  6. #106
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    40,795
    Amen (Given)
    3806
    Amen (Received)
    18815
    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    No. Damn Sparky, you seem to be having great difficulty with comprehension today. Perhaps you're not getting enough sleep?
    But you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Hmm, sorry, you're right. But the hypothetical should have been "if they didn't and couldn't exist." The point of the hypothetical is what would the world be like without guns. If you could just manufacture more guns, then there's no point to the question.
    And that means, "if you remove all existing guns it wouldn't make a difference because people would find ways to get new guns"

  7. #107
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    42,776
    Amen (Given)
    9230
    Amen (Received)
    21145
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    Next time some theist suggests I consider what will happen when I faced his deity after death, I'll refer him to you
    Sure, if you're not capable of answering your own questions, I'll lend a hand.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  8. #108
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    40,795
    Amen (Given)
    3806
    Amen (Received)
    18815
    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Yes, it would.^_^
    Welcome to Tweb!

  9. #109
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    In my house.
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    12,696
    Amen (Given)
    6034
    Amen (Received)
    4616
    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    First of all, I agree with you that a gun is usually the better choice, but MM IS correct that in certain situations, the knife wins. Myth Busters did a scenario where the person with the knife started within 21 ft of the gun. The knife won most of the time. Now, the parameters were a little sketchy the gun had to start holstered and the knife was already out, so, I would have liked to see them start with both holstered. Now, if the gun is out like the knife, then yeah, I think the test would have been different. Also, I carry my gun with one in the chamber...but the safety is on.

    https://youtu.be/ckz7EmDxhtU
    If (in a hypothetical comic book world) you could only have one type of weapon in your entire life and knives were classified as weapons not tools (you get magic cutting thingies so you don't have to worry about knives as anything other than a weapon) which would you choose? The parameters allow for a halberd, of course and we'll even separate knives and swords into separate categories for no readily apparent reason - but the idea is choosing a single type of weapon to use in a lifetime of possible encounters - or no encounter at all (it's not Mad Max). With no way to know what if any need you would have for it, would you choose a knife over a gun as a weapon?

    And YES, I'm cheating a bit here so I'll go on and concede that there are circumstances in which you would come out better with a knife (professional assassin being one) but I don't think that many would choose knife over gun if they are depending on it as a general weapon and not a specific encounter. After all, you wouldn't take a .22 to shoot elephants (unless you were feeling suicidal) if you knew you were going to encounter an elephant - but life doesn't always give us that much foresight. Expecting squirrels and ending up with a runaway elephant - there's no perfect way to prepare for every emergency.

    I was taught to shoot but haven't picked up a gun in forty + years. Given something automatic with a (relatively) low recoil, I could likely fire it reasonably well with only a little practice. Could I take out an armory? Of course not. Could I kill a lot of people if I managed to get it into a crowded concert hall - you bet. I've actually trained with swordsmanship as well (hey, it's only been 27 years or so). It would take a LOT of practice and conditioning for me to reasonably use a knife as a weapon. Could I take out an armory? If making all the soldiers helpless with laughter counts, sure - otherwise heck no. Could I kill a lot of people in a crowded concert hall? Not unless they are all suicidal and start lining up submissively.

    Gun control is about preventing misuse and intentional violence (and some negligence as well). it's about keeping as many as possible guns away from people who really either cannot handle them safely (toddlers, severely mentally ill) or really will not handle them safely (mentally ill, ill intentioned).

    I don't agree that stricter gun control is necessarily the answer (there might be some areas of improvement) but uniform gun control is a necessary change. One set of Federal laws instead of a myriad of state and local ones. The 'knives kill people too' argument rings hollow - knives are rarely chosen as mass killing weapons for very obvious reasons. There are no drive by knifings. And since virtually no Western countries lack some gun control the 'lookie, they still have murders' argument is completely uncompelling.

    But even gun abolition wouldn't stop school shootings unless it could be 100% effective - guns aren't the cause (they are a HUGE contributing factor to the death toll). We warehouse kids in their own age groups and wonder why we end up with something a little less onerous than The Lord of the Flies. We let them 'blow off steam' by killing virtual people. We treat the victims of bullying as if they should fix it themselves - regardless of how out of control the situation really is. We give them a world of media in which the hero is not terribly different from the villain. We wonder why it goes horribly wrong when they get a weapon and lash out.

    Keeping them away from weapons for the intervening years while we try to fix decades of garbage is only one piece of the puzzle - but it is an important piece. Truth is, we will never know how many kids were just as willing to go on a rampage but were unable to obtain the weapons they needed. A lot, a few? No way to know - but if we don't start caring about the weirdoes and outsiders when they are young enough to help we're not gonna stop these killings.


    End of rant - sorry for getting off track.

  10. #110
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    In my house.
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    12,696
    Amen (Given)
    6034
    Amen (Received)
    4616
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    But you said:



    And that means, "if you remove all existing guns it wouldn't make a difference because people would find ways to get new guns"
    No, it doesn't. You're misreading it. Or you're deliberately taking it out of the hypothetical. In the hypothetical as it should have been stated, guns cease to exist and cannot be re-created.

    In six thousand years of human history, guns have only been around since the 14th Century and modern firearms don't appear until the 17th Century so it's not actually that far fetched.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •