Originally posted by TheWall
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Hypothetical. All guns dissapear. What happens?
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"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostBillions of humans never shoot anybody either.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostEGGzackly, so we need to look at why some do.
Things that have generally worked well in other Western countries on the topic include:
- Strong gun-control laws
- Government funded healthcare and mental healthcare services
- Anti-bullying programs in schools
- Government intervention to remove children from 'problem' homes and place them in adoptive care
Most Western countries have found that strong gun control laws almost completely eradicate mass shootings. Removing peoples desire to commit a mass shooting is complex and difficult, but removing their ability to perform one is much easier."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by TheWall View PostIf all guns dissapeared right now what would happen? Or more accurately what would possibly happen?.
If you asked me it would be short lived.
What would happen? People would go back to killing each other with bows and arrows, knives, clubs, rocks, a stout tree branch. You know, like they used to do in the good ol' days.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostLet's expand this hypothetical: supernatural intervention causes all existing guns to vanish and makes it impossible to create new guns.
What would happen? People would go back to killing each other with bows and arrows, knives, clubs, rocks, a stout tree branch. You know, like they used to do in the good ol' days.sigpic
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostLet's expand this hypothetical: supernatural intervention causes all existing guns to vanish and makes it impossible to create new guns.
What would happen? People would go back to killing each other with bows and arrows, knives, clubs, rocks, a stout tree branch. You know, like they used to do in the good ol' days.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostHow many school children do you think a mentally disturbed person would be able to murder with a stout tree branch before he himself is taken down? And how many do you think would even bother with the attempt knowing that they couldn't cause enough damage to satisfy themselves? Fact is the data is in, where semiautomatics have been banned these kind of mass murders decreased substantially."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by JimL View PostNo, we have to do both. Besides, you conservatives talk out of both sides of your mouths. You say we have to have better mental health, but then you don't want to pay for it."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by JimLamebrain View PostHow many school children do you think a mentally disturbed person would be able to murder with a stout tree branch before he himself is taken down? And how many do you think would even bother with the attempt knowing that they couldn't cause enough damage to satisfy themselves? Fact is the data is in, where semiautomatics have been banned these kind of mass murders decreased substantially.
Alternatively, look at Chicago: strict gun control but high rates of violent crime. Liberals say, "It's not Chicago's fault because criminals are just buying guns from border states where guns are readily available!" Which begs the question: Why aren't those border states also experiencing high rates of violent crime?
Answer: Because guns aren't the problem.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostMaybe not with a stout tree branch, but there have been a number of horrific mass killings using knives. At any rate, death by mass shooting is one of the least likely causes of death in America.
Alternatively, look at Chicago: strict gun control but high rates of violent crime. Liberals say, "It's not Chicago's fault because criminals are just buying guns from border states where guns are readily available!" Which begs the question: Why aren't those border states also experiencing high rates of violent crime?
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostYou mean like Gary Indiana?
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostYou mean like Gary Indiana?
Maybe we should outlaw poverty since that seems to lead to crime more reliably than the presence of guns.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostYou mean that city that became economically depressed after the steel mills shutdown?
Maybe we should outlaw poverty since that seems to lead to crime more reliably than the presence of guns.
As I've been stating from the start, I'm for multi-pronged solutions that deal with both cause and effect. A nation as wealthy as America should be looking for ways to reduce poverty that will in turn help reduce crime. In the meantime, let's also get rid of the most lethal tool regularly used in violent crimes. It's a win win!
That said, don't think I didn't notice that you've moved the goalpost. You asked why border states aren't also experiencing high rates of violent crime... They are. Cities in border states like St. Louis, Kansas City, Milwaukee, South Bend, Indianapolis, and Detroit all have some of the highest murder rates in the US. But that's besides the point. As has been repeated to you over and over and over again, no one is arguing that guns make people more criminally inclined. So asking the question "why isn't their higher crime in places with less strict gun laws" is asking the wrong question. Rather, the argument is that in places that see violent crime, guns make that crime more lethal.
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