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Thread: Federal civil asset forfeiture - back in business

  1. #11
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Then they don't know enough to take the money.
    True.

  2. #12
    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    According to the article there is recourse, they are extending the notification period and adding other safeguards.

    I don't know - I have a knee jerk distaste for it but I'd have to see the actual law.
    Like you said, we need to look at actual law, but when announcement of Sessions sounds reasonable, who is surprised at of wapo??

    “Under today’s guidance, the federal government will not adopt seized property unless the state or local agency involved provides information demonstrating that the seizure was justified by probable cause. We will accomplish this through a new adoption form that state and local law enforcement must fill out before we will agree to adopt any property, which will include the necessary information to allow Department lawyers to carefully review and determine whether adoption is proper. Further, law enforcement agencies who wish to participate in the Department’s Equitable Sharing Program now must now provide their officers with enhanced training on asset forfeiture laws.

    “The Department will adopt smaller seizures of cash—between $5,000 and $10,000—only if there exists some level of criminality or with the express concurrence of the U.S. Attorney’s office.

    “Further, to better protect claimants, the Department will expedite the review of civil asset forfeiture cases. State and local law enforcement agencies requesting federal adoption must do so within 15 calendar days following the date of seizure. The adopting federal agency must then send notice to interested parties within 45 days of the date of seizure. This is twice as fast of a review as is required by statute. This streamlined process will ensure that people receive speedy resolutions of their cases, and that rightful owners will get their property back as soon as possible.

    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  3. #13
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    My question remains - if they find somebody with the drug cash, why can they not just charge them?
    Even if the guy is guilty, he has a right not to incriminate himself, and it's almost impossible to build a case because of the way the money laundering is set up - unlike other crime where there's a complainant, this is a "stumbled upon" "crime".

    Not defending the practice by any means - I agree this really is an affront to due process...

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  4. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
  5. #14
    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    It has always puzzled me why this isn't universally considered grossly unconstitutional - it's the most obvious violation of due process I have ever seen.

    Law enforcement took more stuff from people than burglars did last year:

    In 2014, for the first time ever, law enforcement officers took more property from American citizens than burglars did... Last year, according to the Institute for Justice, the Treasury and Justice departments deposited more than $5 billion into their respective asset forfeiture funds. That same year, the FBI reports that burglary losses topped out at $3.5 billion. [Note that this doesn't include] property losses from larceny and theft [which add up to $12.3 billion if included]

    Sad!
    From own link of yours,

    "In a given year, one or two high-dollar cases may produce unusually large amounts of money — with a portion going back to victims — thereby telling a noisy story of year-to-year activity levels," the Institute for Justice explains. A big chunk of that 2014 deposit, for instance, was the $1.7 billion Bernie Madoff judgment, most of which flowed back to the victims.
    Standard spin of Fake News in headlines, then walking back slowly in text. Sad!

    Also, why Starlight and studies, also numbers cannot be trusted:

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    In 2014, for the first time ever, law enforcement officers took more property from American citizens than burglars did... Last year, according to the Institute for Justice, the Treasury and Justice departments deposited more than $5 billion into their respective asset forfeiture funds.

    Sad!
    Like 1 billion from Madoff in 2014. Sad!
    Last edited by demi-conservative; 03-04-2018 at 08:21 PM.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  6. #15
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    My question remains - if they find somebody with the drug cash, why can they not just charge them?
    Because they don't have drugs with them. They are just running the money back to the drug cartel. They will have a car with lots of cash in it. And that's it. They sometimes will even hire college students or even advertise they need a car driven across country and will pay for someone to drive it for them and have the cash hidden in the car without the driver's knowledge.

  7. #16
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Because they don't have drugs with them. They are just running the money back to the drug cartel. They will have a car with lots of cash in it. And that's it. They sometimes will even hire college students or even advertise they need a car driven across country and will pay for someone to drive it for them and have the cash hidden in the car without the driver's knowledge.
    My son-in-law (city police) was assisting in a traffic stop by the Sheriff's Department, and there was a large amount of cash in the vehicle - no drugs, and the drug dog didn't "hit" on anything. The deputy announced he was seizing the vehicle, even though the occupant, an older African-American man, was trying to explain it's his MOTHER'S car, he had just put her in a nursing home, he had cashed out her savings to put into an account to pay her nursing home, and even though it sounds like he did some stupid things, it would be easy to prove or disprove his story. The deputy was being a real $#@!!^, and already called a tow truck to impound the vehicle, and told the driver he'd have to get a ride, "cause that ride belongs to me, now!" He seized the cash, and ignored my son-in-law's attempts at reasoning with him.

    That's the kind of crap that ruins even the best intended laws. (or exposes their weaknesses)

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  8. Amen Jedidiah, Starlight, Darth Executor amen'd this post.
  9. #17
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    My son-in-law (city police) was assisting in a traffic stop by the Sheriff's Department, and there was a large amount of cash in the vehicle - no drugs, and the drug dog didn't "hit" on anything. The deputy announced he was seizing the vehicle, even though the occupant, an older African-American man, was trying to explain it's his MOTHER'S car, he had just put her in a nursing home, he had cashed out her savings to put into an account to pay her nursing home, and even though it sounds like he did some stupid things, it would be easy to prove or disprove his story. The deputy was being a real $#@!!^, and already called a tow truck to impound the vehicle, and told the driver he'd have to get a ride, "cause that ride belongs to me, now!" He seized the cash, and ignored my son-in-law's attempts at reasoning with him.

    That's the kind of crap that ruins even the best intended laws. (or exposes their weaknesses)
    yep. And in Tennessee weren't there some cops who were using the law to line their pockets or something?
    (eta: http://www.offthegridnews.com/curren...from-citizens/)

    I think they do need to modify the law to allow a certain time period where people can bring in proof of where the money came from. If people cash out a bank account or sell something for cash, they usually have receipts or statements that can show they are telling the truth.

  10. #18
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    cloudfare just ate my response again

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  11. #19
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    cloudfare just ate my response again
    I just turned if off again.

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