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  • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    A number of reasons.
    Paul was never in a position to know anymore than you're in a position to know. Subjective belief is not the same as "knowing".

    What attempt have you made to understand?
    There is no reason to make an attempt to "understand" ancient myths and legends except as an interesting excursion into comparative religions.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      Paul was never in a position to know anymore than you're in a position to know. Subjective belief is not the same as "knowing".
      Paul saw and heard Jesus. His companions saw the light and hear a voice, not understanding what it said. Paul being blinded needed them to take him where he needed to be brought.


      There is no reason to make an attempt to "understand" ancient myths and legends except as an interesting excursion into comparative religions.
      You do not know that the New Testament accounts are myth.
      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

      Comment


      • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        Paul saw and heard Jesus. His companions saw the light and hear a voice, not understanding what it said. Paul being blinded needed them to take him where he needed to be brought.
        So the story goes...

        These things are also consistent with a grand-mal epileptic seizure. The sudden light, Saul's sudden fall, the fact that he first lay motionless on the ground but was then able to get up unaided...all typical symptoms.

        You do not know that the New Testament accounts are myth.
        They probably are, they're not supported by external evidence nor are they based upon direct eyewitness reportage and they arose in a gullible, nonscientific era.
        Last edited by Tassman; 05-19-2018, 12:21 AM.
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
          So the story goes...

          These things are also consistent with a grand-mal epileptic seizure. The sudden light, Saul's sudden fall, the fact that he first lay motionless on the ground but was then able to get up unaided...all typical symptoms.
          So simultaneously his companions had the same thing happen to them. Except they did not see Jesus and hear what Jesus said to Saul.


          They probably are, they're not supported by external evidence nor are they based upon direct eyewitness reportage and they arose in a gullible, nonscientific era.
          And you know that there were not witnesses.
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment


          • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
            So simultaneously his companions had the same thing happen to them. Except they did not see Jesus and hear what Jesus said to Saul.
            According to the story in Acts, written in the third person c. 60 years after the alleged event.

            And you know that there were not witnesses.
            The consensus of the majority of scholars is that the gospels are not based upon eyewitness reportage, but on hearsay accounts.
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
              According to the story in Acts, written in the third person c. 60 years after the alleged event.
              Based on what?


              The consensus of the majority of scholars is that the gospels are not based upon eyewitness reportage, but on hearsay accounts.
              Those scholars are not Christians, so none of them would know God either.
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                Based on what?
                Scholarly consensus!

                Those scholars are not Christians, so none of them would know God either.
                That has nothing to do with impartial, objective scholarship?
                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  Scholarly consensus!
                  Scholarly consensus does not make anything true.


                  That has nothing to do with impartial, objective scholarship?
                  Yes. But unbelievers scholarship is often bias against what is actually true.
                  . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                    Those scholars are not Christians
                    So we should only trust scholars who happen to agree with you?

                    No surprise there.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      Scholarly consensus does not make anything true.
                      Agreement amongst well qualified scholars is more probably accurate than otherwise.

                      Yes. But unbelievers scholarship is often bias against what is actually true.
                      The bias is more likely in scholarship that sets out to reinforce the religious presuppositions of believers.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 37818
                        Those scholars are not Christians
                        Some are Christians some are not. Nonetheless it is based on sound scholarly research of external evidence in coordination with the a scholarly analysis of the text.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          Some are Christians some are not. Nonetheless it is based on sound scholarly research of external evidence in coordination with the a scholarly analysis of the text.
                          No. Profession of being Christian does not make me or anyone else a Christian (Jesus so warns Matthew 7:21-23).
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            Agreement amongst well qualified scholars is more probably accurate than otherwise.
                            Not if they are lost (2 Corinthians 4:3-4).


                            The bias is more likely in scholarship that sets out to reinforce the religious presuppositions of believers.
                            Truth is in fact also a bias. Did you know that?
                            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              Not if they are lost (2 Corinthians 4:3-4).
                              Being "lost" or "saved" has nothing to do with good scholarly research of the available evidence.

                              Truth is in fact also a bias. Did you know that?
                              "Bias" is prejudice in favour of or against something, it has a negative connotation whereas "truth" is in accordance with fact or reality.
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                                Being "lost" or "saved" has nothing to do with good scholarly research of the available evidence.
                                It has everything to do with knowing or not knowing God. And the gospel of grace not being understood.


                                "Bias" is prejudice in favour of or against something, it has a negative connotation whereas "truth" is in accordance with fact or reality.
                                OK. Prove you are not biased against the truth. Explain the gospel of grace and why it is not true in your view.
                                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                                Comment

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