Originally posted by Doug Shaver
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Last edited by Sparko; 05-14-2018, 01:34 PM.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThere are many sources that say this, Bart Ehrman for one and Raymond E Brown, who is considered one of the greatest New Testament scholars of our time, is another.
https://lutherwasnotbornagaincom.wor...f-the-gospels/
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostOnly one deity. Not deities. Can you definitively show that there is not only one actual/real deity?
Yes. And what they say prove true. You cannot prove uncaused Existence is not the identity of God. You have only proven to me, for one, that you do not understand the Christian good news of the unmerited favor God offers do to your refusal to do so. Yeah, so you know a story of a death, burial and claimed resurrection. But you do not understand how that story is true or why or how it is good news nor the unmerited favor.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostQuoting a blog of a book review is not evidence.
The following are mostly the date ranges given by the late Raymond E. Brown, in his book An Introduction to the New Testament, as representing the general scholarly consensus.:
Matthew: c. 70–100 as the majority view, with conservative scholars arguing for a pre-70 date, particularly if they do not accept Mark as the first gospel written.
Mark: c. 68–73
Luke: c. 80–100, with most arguing for somewhere around 85
John: c. 90–110. Dr Brown does not give a consensus view for John, but these are dates as propounded by C K Barrett, among others. The majority view is that it was written in stages, so there was no one date of composition. Cited Wiki.
Also, from Boston College:
https://www.bc.edu/schools/stm/cross...hegospels.html
As for eyewitness reportage, the consensus view is that while eyewitnesses may have originated some of the traditions about Jesus, they were transmitted as anonymous traditions in the early Christian communities, developing in all sorts of ways in the process, and reached the gospel writers as the product of such community transmission and development.Last edited by Tassman; 05-15-2018, 12:38 AM.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostYour argument comes down to demanding I prove your beliefs to be untrue. In short, no argument at all. The onus is yours to show why your beliefs are true.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostQuoting a blog of a book review is not evidence.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostHistorically the Hebrews worshipped God whose Name means the self Existent. And the only "thing" self existent is the uncaused Existence itself. I have argued that is God's identity. The argument stands irrefutable.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Doug Shaver View PostAnd whose fault is that? The only clues I can have are those provided by people who say he exists.
I am an atheist because theists cannot give me a good reason to believe anything they say about God.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostYet those who are genuine Christians know God through Christ.
Originally posted by 37818 View PostThat really is the only argument they really need to make, they know God and you can too.
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostSaying God exists is not understanding what and who God is. God being the self Existent existence itself. "In Him we live and move and have our existence." -- the Apostle Paul.
Yeah, most theists will mistakenly argue for the existence of God. Existence needs no proof, God does as they argue. Yet those who are genuine Christians know God through Christ. That really is the only argument they really need to make, they know God and you can too.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostHow would Paul know?
That's no argument at all, it's merely a statement of faith unsupported by evidence.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Doug Shaver View PostYou say so.
That is no argument. That is an assertion, and you are giving me no reason to believe it.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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