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  • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    The NT manuscript evidence, our copies, with authorship attached. The fact that there are NT documents which in the body of the documents the author does not name himself as the author.

    The [NT*] Christian perspective of said documents being Holy Scripture means that they were Holy Scripture when they were written, not when some so called, yes, so called churches canonized them.
    [* 2 Peter 1:16-21; 2 Timothy 3:15-17.]
    Authors ascribed to the gospels very late. Papias and Irenaeus assigned the authors to the gospels (after ~100 AD?), Before this there were no authors assigned to the gospels. considered anonymous.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      No it does not. No references that justify this external to the scriptures.
      You said,
      None of the manuscript evidence nor historical records date to support your assertions.
      but it does.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        Authors ascribed to the gospels very late. Papias and Irenaeus assigned the authors to the gospels (after ~100 AD?), Before this there were no authors assigned to the gospels. considered anonymous.
        Those authors are not believers in the Holy Scriptures either. So, so what?
        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          Those authors are not believers in the Holy Scriptures either. So, so what?
          What are you talking about?!?!!? What authors?!?!?! I was referring to actual known evidence when the names were assigned to the gospels.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            You said,


            but it does.
            No external evidence provided so far to justify your assertions.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              What are you talking about?!?!!? What authors?!?!?! I was referring to actual known evidence when the names were assigned to the gospels.
              As far as we can tell the names have always been associated with the gospels. There is no evidence to the contrary. If you can find some, feel free to present it here.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                No external evidence provided so far to justify your assertions.
                The manuscript and historical evidence all supports my "assertions"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  What are you talking about?!?!!? What authors?!?!?! I was referring to actual known evidence when the names were assigned to the gospels.
                  The unbelieving scholars have names. And did you or did you not read the pdf that I provided the link for? It listed the NT gospel manuscripts, and that the ones not damaged, all had the gospel writers names with them.
                  Last edited by 37818; 06-20-2018, 08:54 AM.
                  . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    The manuscript and historical evidence all supports my "assertions"
                    Actually no, because based on the manuscript references, and other references by the Church Fathers there is nothing prior to ~100 AD,
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      The unbelieving scholars have names. And did you or did you not read the pdf that I provided the link for? It listed the NT gospel manuscripts, and that the ones not damaged, all had the gospel writers names with them.
                      The reference in the link were all well after 100 AD, actually after 150 AD, and offered no external evidence for named gospels prior to ~100 AD.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                        Actually no, because based on the manuscript references, and other references by the Church Fathers there is nothing prior to ~100 AD,
                        We have fragments and mentions of verses in letters and sermons quoted from earlier versions then that. And the copies did not appear out of thin air. They had to have earlier versions that they came from. If you would like to provide any evidence that any of those earlier versions or the originals did NOT have the 4 names on them, please provide it. Otherwise it is you who has no evidence.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          The reference in the link were all well after 100 AD, actually after 150 AD, and offered no external evidence for named gospels prior to ~100 AD.
                          Did you read the pdf I gave a link to? Or are you just babbling nonsense.
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            The manuscript and historical evidence all supports my "assertions"
                            No historical evidence provided prior to 100 AD.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              No historical evidence provided prior to 100 AD.
                              And how does that prove those gospels did not have those gospel writers names associated with them in the beginning?
                              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                                And how does that prove those gospels did not have those gospel writers names associated with them in the beginning?
                                There is simply no evidence that they did have named authors. The documentary hypothesis, and the evolution of the gospels from the earliest we call Mark is the dominantly accepted academic view on the history of the Pentateuch and the gospels.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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