Originally posted by Sparko
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If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf he has always existed there is no cause by definition.
This is an informal conditional fallacy, there is no good reason to believe that such an entity exists.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostRight, there is no ultimate purpose for gods existence, gods existing would ultimately be meaningless. The only distinction you're making between god and the universe in this regard is that god, should such a being exist, has always existed. So what? My point had nothing to do with eternal vs temporal, my only point had to do with purpose and meaning, the lack of which in a godless world, seems to be a problem for christians. If god has no ultimate purpose for existing, if there's no ultimate meaning for his existence, then why would you think that the universe, and the parts therein, must have an ultimate purpose or meaning for it's existence?
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postno preset purpose doesn't equate to no self-purpose or being meaningless. If someone has a purpose, that indicates that someone set that purpose for them. God sets his own purposes and reasons.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIf god were eternal, then he obviously couldn't set his own purposes or reasons for existing, if he were to have any purpose, or reasons for his existing, they would also be eternal. If your argument is that god sets his own purposes and reasons for existing, then he is no different than human beings in that regard.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostHe has no purpose for EXISTING. He has purposes for what he does with his existence. Each individual can do the same, they can make up their own purposes for what they do with their life.
But there is also a purpose for mankind to exist at all. To Glorify God.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostExactly my point. Christians need to stop making the argument that in a godless world human beings would have no ultimate reason or purpose for existing as if that's an impossible or senseless conclusion to come to. The same is true of their god, there is no ultimate reason or purpose for his existing. You are not so much concerned about purpose, you're concerned about continued existence.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostExactly my point. Christians need to stop making the argument that in a godless world human beings would have no ultimate reason or purpose for existing as if that's an impossible or senseless conclusion to come to. The same is true of their god, there is no ultimate reason or purpose for his existing. You are not so much concerned about purpose, you're concerned about continued existence.
To quote Richard Dawkins:
"In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
That however does not prevent you or a Stalin from making up their own purpose...Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI would say that without God there is no ultimate purpose for humanity. We are just the accidential by product of the forces of nature.
To quote Richard Dawkins:
"In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
That however does not prevent you or a Stalin from making up their own purpose...
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostHe has no purpose for EXISTING. He has purposes for what he does with his existence. Each individual can do the same, they can make up their own purposes for what they do with their life.
But there is also a purpose for mankind to exist at all. To Glorify God.
What sort of insecure deity requires constant praising anyway?“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostAs with all creatures we have a purpose-driven life; one of survival and reproduction.
Wow, that's exciting.
What sort of insecure deity requires constant praising anyway?
Glory:
1. high renown or honor won by notable achievements.
2. magnificence or great beauty.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWhat sort of insecure deity requires constant praising anyway?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostWorship is not for His benefit, it is for yours. To remind you that your very next breath is dependent on Him.
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Originally posted by seer View PostWorship is not for His benefit, it is for yours. To remind you that your very next breath is dependent on Him.sigpic
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