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Which Would You Personally Prefer...

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  • #31
    Originally posted by magenta View Post
    i like authority instead of chaos.
    That’s fair.

    someone or establishment must be in charge or everyone tries to take control and you get chaos.
    Not so obvious. Putin can act quickly and recklessly because no-one else has to be consulted.


    order can be a good thing but of course anything out of balance is dangerous.
    I believe balance is key but as humans normally we are always out of balance.
    Balance is particularly important when playing golf.

    i feel safety in knowing that god is in control of everything.
    What control?

    when i said i like to listen and learn from others that is always second to what the bible teaches me. I trust god first but i believe we can learn from others second.
    Does the Bible teach? Is it not just advertising?
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      1. To be created by amoral, non-rational forces of nature, or...

      2. To be created by a rational, morally good Being?

      I'm not asking if you believe or not in a god, but which scenario would you prefer, and perhaps why...
      We are what we are in either case, so why should the one be preferable to the other.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by element771 View Post
        Just because.

        No reason.

        Accident.

        That is the way it is.

        Pick one..

        How would you put it exactly?

        I have been on a path my entire life to obtain valuable knowledge. I can assure you that it happening for any of the reasons stated above have not blocked my journey.

        Why were you upset by plate tectonics? Seemed pretty cool to me as a child.
        Your god exists (you believe) just because, for no reason, that's just the way it is.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          1. To be created by amoral, non-rational forces of nature, or...

          2. To be created by a rational, morally good Being?

          I'm not asking if you believe or not in a god, but which scenario would you prefer, and perhaps why...
          What difference would it make to me? None.
          "Obama is not a brown-skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away free healthcare. You are thinking of Jesus." Episcopal Bishop of Arizona

          I remember WinAce. Gone but not forgotten.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by kiwimac View Post
            What difference would it make to me? None.
            You claim to be a priest and you don't think it matters to you if God created you or not?

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              You claim to be a priest and you don't think it matters to you if God created you or not?
              Tell me why God cannot use Evolution? Moreover as the recipient of being what on earth does it matter HOW I came to be? Surely what matters is how I choose to live as I had absolutely no choice in being?
              "Obama is not a brown-skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away free healthcare. You are thinking of Jesus." Episcopal Bishop of Arizona

              I remember WinAce. Gone but not forgotten.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by kiwimac View Post
                Tell me why God cannot use Evolution? Moreover as the recipient of being what on earth does it matter HOW I came to be? Surely what matters is how I choose to live as I had absolutely no choice in being?
                Who said anything about evolution?
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  You claim to be a priest and you don't think it matters to you if God created you or not?
                  Originally posted by kiwimac View Post
                  Tell me why God cannot use Evolution? Moreover as the recipient of being what on earth does it matter HOW I came to be? Surely what matters is how I choose to live as I had absolutely no choice in being?
                  As a Christian who thinks all of the evidence points unerringly toward evolution having taken place, if you also believe that God is responsible for establishing evolution as one of the many mechanisms and processes involved in His creation, then God still is responsible for having created you.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    And still the point is missed. What actual difference does it make to ME?
                    "Obama is not a brown-skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away free healthcare. You are thinking of Jesus." Episcopal Bishop of Arizona

                    I remember WinAce. Gone but not forgotten.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      Your god exists (you believe) just because, for no reason, that's just the way it is.
                      Yes but the God I believe in isn't subjected to the laws of physics...hence the problem.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by kiwimac View Post
                        And still the point is missed. What actual difference does it make to ME?

                        You are the one missing the point. You miss the point of the OP, and of the question and remarks addressed to you directly. You claimed to be a Christian in the past, and have "Priest" as your faith designation. If God is real, then you owe your allegiance to Him, if He does not, then being a Christian is insane. To say it makes no difference to you whether or not God exists* is insane regardless of who you are or what you believe. Especially so for Christians who are supposed to base their very lives on the fact that Jesus rose from the dead, and is King of Kings.

                        *Which is what the OP is about, not whether or not evolution or creationism is true. It is about whether or not theism or atheism is true.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by kiwimac View Post
                          Tell me why God cannot use Evolution? Moreover as the recipient of being what on earth does it matter HOW I came to be? Surely what matters is how I choose to live as I had absolutely no choice in being?
                          nobody said God couldn't use Evolution, but the OP was contrasting being created by God and being created by evolution without God, just the forces of nature.

                          If you are a priest, it would seem to me that believing God created you would be paramount to your life, faith, and career. After all if you didn't believe in God, how could you honestly be a priest?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by element771 View Post
                            Yes but the God I believe in isn't subjected to the laws of physics...hence the problem.
                            Meaning what exactly? One of the arguments I hear all the time from believers is that if we are not created by a god, if we exist just because, for no reason, that's just the way it is, then there is no purpose to our existence and that existing without any ultimate reason for existing is unfathomable to them. My point was that so what, the same would be true of god!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by element771 View Post
                              Yes but the God I believe in isn't subjected to the laws of physics...hence the problem.
                              There must be a way that even God works. What you mean is that you don’t know how He works but you are certain that He is not subject to known physics.

                              That of course is wild assertion based on zero evidence and extremely different to the God of the Bible which was then much more of the natural order of things and local although most of the time out of sight behind the clouds.

                              As you know, there is a famous painting of God on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Now, that’s a God with an ordinary physical form.

                              Is you’re the Christian God? I don’t think the Bible authors would recognise Him.
                              “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                              “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                              “not all there” - you know who you are

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                                There must be a way that even God works. What you mean is that you don’t know how He works but you are certain that He is not subject to known physics.

                                That of course is wild assertion based on zero evidence and extremely different to the God of the Bible which was then much more of the natural order of things and local although most of the time out of sight behind the clouds.
                                God created physics so I think it is fair to say that he is not subject to the laws that he created. That is like saying that the author of the book is constrained by the story he is writing. It isn't a wild assertion, it is basic logic.


                                Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                                As you know, there is a famous painting of God on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Now, that’s a God with an ordinary physical form.

                                Is you’re the Christian God? I don’t think the Bible authors would recognise Him.

                                I would be interested to see how many Christians feel that the painting of God in the Sistine Chapel is an accurate representation of the God we worship.

                                Why is it that atheists all have childish ideas of God (old man, white beard, robe, sandals, etc) yet get mad when they find out that we have a more complex view of God? We don't believe in your cartoonish version of God either...no wonder why you are an atheist.
                                Last edited by element771; 03-12-2018, 06:56 PM.

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