Jesus and His disciples ate the Passover when?

[Truthseeker]

Before trying to determine the date of the Passover meal (or the resurrection) you'd better determine whether or not the Bible has enough detailis even precise enough for you to make a judgement one way or the other.

OK. I wonder, what is your reason to subscribe to this thread?

[37818]

The Passover occurs on the 14th day. This would be Tuesday night. Then Jesus the real lamb of God would also be killed later on the 14th (Wednesday afternoon).

Exodus 12:18-19
In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even. Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.

Joshua 5:10-11
And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho.
And they did eat of the old corn of the land on the morrow after the passover, unleavened cakes, and parched corn in the selfsame day.

Ezekiel 45:21
In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

Note: Some sources say that the Passover is eight days, but the Bible seems to contradict this doctrine. Most likely, the eighth day or 21st of Nisan is the point at which they were allowed to eat regular bread again.

Thank you.

There are three interpretations as to the poll. Your presentation is very good to say the least (Wednesday day being the 14th of Nisan). For the Wednesday crucifixion view. In 33 AD the 14th of Nisan is on the Friday (tradition). It is my understanding the Passover day 14th of Nisan (Mark 14:12). Is followed by the 7 day feast of unleavened bread, the 15th through the 21st. It was also called the Passover (Luke 22:1). And the 14th and the 15th through 21st makes the 8 days. Modern Jews Passover begins on the 15th of Nisan, which is marked on some calendars as the first day of Passover. And the Jewish observance begins the evening before (compare Mark 14:17, 18). The Jewish days begin on the evening before the day.

I am of the persuasion that the crucifixion was on the Thursday. (These views are secondary issues. But they are if interest.) For my self, my personal discovery of this view was in about 1969. My question then was, was it the (traditional) Friday or Wednesday? Mark 14:12 identified as the 14th of Nisan. And the following evening (Mark 14:17) marked the beginning of the 15th of Nisan. Mark 15:42, "And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, . . ." marked the beginning of the Preparation, making the next day Friday it being before the Sabbath. Of course there is more to this.

[JonathanL]

OK. I wonder, what is your reason to subscribe to this thread?

I'm mildly interested in the topic.

ETA: I have to ask though, why edit my quote?

[Obsidian]

Mark 14:12 identified as the 14th of Nisan. And the following evening (Mark 14:17) marked the beginning of the 15th of Nisan. Mark 15:42, "And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, . . ." marked the beginning of the Preparation, making the next day Friday it being before the Sabbath. Of course there is more to this.

I think your theory has more problems than mine. First, it seemingly makes Jesus eat the Passover on the wrong day (the 15th) in violation of the law. Second, it would make the crucifixion occur on the 15th which was supposed to be a sabbath. While the Jews were not opposed to murder, they would have certainly abhored to do it on a sabbath.

The more reasonable explanations are that Mark 14:12 either:
1) Refers to Tuesday evening as the time when the animal was killed, or
2) Uses a gentile timing system, and merely calls Tuesday day (the 13th) as part of the same day as Tuesday night (the 14th).

[Truthseeker]

I'm mildly interested in the topic.

ETA: I have to ask though, why edit my quote?

I made a mistake. I should have written "details" instead of just "detail." It's not just being precise, it's having enough details to help us understand what really happened. eta I'm funny that way--don't mind me too much.

[37818]

I think your theory has more problems than mine. First, it seemingly makes Jesus eat the Passover on the wrong day (the 15th) in violation of the law. Second, it would make the crucifixion occur on the 15th which was supposed to be a sabbath. While the Jews were not opposed to murder, they would have certainly abhored to do it on a sabbath.

The more reasonable explanations are that Mark 14:12 either:
1) Refers to Tuesday evening as the time when the animal was killed, or
2) Uses a gentile timing system, and merely calls Tuesday day (the 13th) as part of the same day as Tuesday night (the 14th).

The Friday tradition also wants to make Mark 14:12 the 13th of Nisan.
"The time was about six o'clock in the morning on the Friday of the Passover festival. Pilate said to the Jews, 'Look, here's your king!'" -- John 19:14., GOD'S WORD® Translation.

In 33 AD the 14th of Nisan fell on a Friday. With that interpretation Jesus would have eaten the Passover the Thursday evening.

The sin offering was made on the first day of feast , the 15th of Nisan (Numbers 28:21, 22). And by Jesus' day 7 such offerings were being made during the week (Ezekiel 45:22, 23). Each day was a "preparation" (v.22, 24). Besides the 7 lambs according to the Law (Numbers 28:21).

[Thoughtful Monk]

I guess TM and Cathy gave good answers, but I wonder about the best way to help the skeptic. And maybe in trying to determine what the best date is, we might learn more about the events in the Bible.

I guess the best way to help the skeptic is to get to understand where he is coming from and what type of skeptic is he. If he is a genuine skeptic, help him to work through his issue and never belittle his point of view. Probably nothing is harder than convincing someone the truth after he's been called stupid.

If he is skeptic that will refuse to believe, place him in God's inbox, pray for him, and move on.

Doing this takes some discernment and patience for the skeptic to reveal what type he is.

[Obsidian]

The sin offering was made on the first day of feast , the 15th of Nisan (Numbers 28:21, 22). And by Jesus' day 7 such offerings were being made during the week (Ezekiel 45:22, 23). Each day was a "preparation" (v.22, 24). Besides the 7 lambs according to the Law (Numbers 28:21).

All sacrifices were "sin offerings" in one way or another. Anyway, that is beside the point. Your interpretation would have the Jews killing Jesus in violation of the sabbath. That is unrealistic. And it is contrary to this verse:

John 19:31
The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

The worry seems to have been that the sabbath was about to begin. The sabbath refers to the 15th.

As best I can tell, on the 14th they were supposed to eat one lamb. On the other days they were supposed to kill 7 animals for each day.

[37818]

All sacrifices were "sin offerings" in one way or another. Anyway, that is beside the point. Your interpretation would have the Jews killing Jesus in violation of the sabbath. That is unrealistic. And it is contrary to this verse:

John 19:31
The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

The worry seems to have been that the sabbath was about to begin. The sabbath refers to the 15th.

As best I can tell, on the 14th they were supposed to eat one lamb. On the other days they were supposed to kill 7 animals for each day.

It has been my understanding that following evening after Christ died was the beginning of the Preparation, the day before the Sabbath. (Mark 15:42).


As it was, it is my understanding Jesus' arrest and trial was illegal.

http://livingtheway.org/jesustrial.html

http://www.jewfaq.org/holidaya.htm

[Obsidian]

Mark 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath...

I don't know why you cite this verse. It proves that Jesus was killed on the 14th (and/or on a Friday).

[37818]

Mark 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath...

I don't know why you cite this verse. It proves that Jesus was killed on the 14th (and/or on a Friday).

There are two ways to understand this. The traditional interpretation. Which you have just defended. Actually supporting the disciples eating the Passover the afternoon of the 13th before sunset and beginning of 14th of Nisan.

"And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?" -- Mark 14:12. Denying that this is the 14th of Nisan.

"And in the evening he cometh with the twelve. . . . "-- Mark 14:17.Denying this is the evening prior to the day of the 15th of Nisan.


"And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, . . ." -- Mark 15:42.Interpreting that this is the afternoon (not after sunset, the beginning) of the Preparation day, the day before the 7th day Sabbath.

The Hebrew transliterated into Greek as "Sabbath" means in the Hebrew a Rest observed on the 7th day. And the Koine Greek usage refers to the 7th day, and so its plural is translated as to mean a "week." (This is unique to the NT Greek text usage.)

The second (not common) way, that those "evenings" were at "sunset" and the start of the next Jewish day. Mark 14:12 being the 14th of Nisan.

[Obsidian]

Mark's language might just be imprecise both times.

"And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the Passover" might mean --> Tuesday, the Passover

"And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath" might mean --> Wednesday, the day before the Thursday Sabbath. We could interpret it literally, to mean that evening already came and Joseph of Arimethea was an hour or two late when getting the body into the ground. Or we could interpret it to mean something like "The evening was fast approaching."

If the verse were saying that "The evening was come, making this the start of the 14th," then the verse would have no meaning because that would mean that Joseph had a full 24 hours to get the body into the ground, and there wouldn't be any hurry at all. The sabbath started on the 15th, by law.

And I still think it is ridiculous to argue that Pharisees would murder a man on the sabbath.

[Truthseeker]

I am confused. A reason is that every sunset is the end of the old day and the start of the new day. In any case I realize now that "evening" does not necessarily mean "sunset"; it could mean either before or after. When the day is old or when it is new. I tried to make a timeline following modern convention, but I got stuck in the mud.

[37818]

I am confused. A reason is that every sunset is the end of the old day and the start of the new day. In any case I realize now that "evening" does not necessarily mean "sunset"; it could mean either before or after. When the day is old or when it is new. I tried to make a timeline following modern convention, but I got stuck in the mud.

The Greek word translated "evening" can mean "late afternoon." The Greek word means "late." So it can also be the beginning of night as translated "evening."

"And at even, when the sun did set, . . ." -- Mark 1:32.
"And the same day, when the even was come, . . ." -- Mark 4:35.

Even so after the evening, when the sun sets is always the beginning of the next Jewish day.

So no matter what, Mark 14:12 being the 14th of Nissan, Mark 14:17 indicates, in my understanding, Jesus and His disciples age the traditional Passover the evening of the 15th of Nisan just as Jews do today.

[Obsidian]

Then why was Joseph of Arimathea concerned about leaving the body unburied, if the sabbath was already past?